Can't Pull My Gooseneck???? (long winded)

[BNedset]

First I would like to say that I enjoy the TDR web site. I have lurked the site since last fall and have found a lot of the information very interesting and helpful.



We purchase a new 04 3500 2WD Dually 4 Door Laramie in December, took delivery on Dec. 30th (late Christmas gift). We didn’t drive the truck much over the winter due to the salt season. The first real test was a trip to Mickey Land in March, about 3500 miles total. From this trip I found likes and dislikes. As a whole I really enjoy driving the truck, it definitely has more power than the Banks powered 89 7. 3 Ford E350 Centurion Cruiser that we have. In fact I really like the power. My complaints about the truck have pretty much been already noted on the board, poor headlights, short front seats (comfortable for short trips but not for 1200 mile trips), and rear wheel hop over hard bumps. My biggest complaint is what has lead to this post, the excessive height of the box. I like the rake of the truck, but I CAN’T PULL MY GOOSENECK TRAILER. There is about 2-½ inch’s of clearance between the box and the trailer.



We have a 44 ft enclosed car trailer, race a 65 HEMI Coronet. Last weekend we went to bring it home. The trailer was located on irregular ground and I wasn’t able to back under it. I had to shim the left front with 2 2x8’s to get the truck level enough and low enough to hook up to the trailer. As I tried to move the trailer out, I actually ended resting the trailer on the box. I took paint off the tailgate and the end of the box trying to backup. Using the shim trick again, I was able to back the trailer up to more level ground. At this point I gave up and unhooked it. As it is right now, the trailer is stuck where it is as the driveway has a fairly steep rise, about a 5-ft. rise, over about 40 ft to the highway. I could make it up the hill but would bury the trailer overhang into the box as it tried to level out and turn. I think the trailer will high side the box on any minor body rolls in and out of driveways or minor hills and dips in parking area. Looks like I am going to have to use the old Ford to pull it home. What did we spend 40+K for? I could have fixed up old Blue and been lots of money ahead.



Does anyone have an idea for an inexpensive fix to help me get about 6 inch’s of clearance between the trailer and the box? The coupler on the trailer has a fixed length. As it looks right now, the front of the trailer is about 4-1/2 inch’s higher than the rear, looks bad. I know I can get an extended ball from B&W but that would increase this angle. The ball may get me maybe about an inch, maybe 1-½ inches due to this angle. I really need to drop the back of the truck.



Also, does anyone have a theory why Dodge feels that 2 wheel drive trucks need to be as high as 4 wheel drives? We’re really not going to take them off roading; most of us are going to use them to tow with.



Again, any and all help will be appreciated.



Thanks,

Bob Nedset

 

[DaveMorris]

Coming from a guy that knows nothing about your type of set ups. But most people I have seen will lift the trailer (trailer lift kit) to level it out with the truck. Also I am not sure if the 2wd have them, but there maybe some shims between your springs and alxe that you could take out and lose about another 1" in height.



Good luck with your project and don't worry I am sure you are not the only one that has run into this, so it shouldn't be "uncharted ground", also have you posted this on the Tow/Haul boards?



Good luck,

Dave

 

[BNedset]

Forgot the truck is a Laramie, not a Lariat (brain Stinker). The decal over the emblem has already fallen off.

 

[bmoeller]

Depending on the how the springs are setup on the trailer, some have had to move the springs from underneath the axle, to putting them over the axle to have more clearance. Are there spacer blocks under the spring pack on the truck? Might be able to get a shorter set to lower the truck a bit.

 

[csevers]

Some what related: How old is the trailer? They didn't make old trailers as high as the newer ones. I had a 96 g neck what was very tight on the tailgate and box sides off road. Then got a 97 and there was 6 more inches of room I asked the trailer salesman and he said the trailer mfg's were slowly making taller trailers to fit the newer higher trucks= Ford and Dodge I am sure with the number of old trailers out there, this can;t be to hard to over come.



Good Luck

Craig

 

[klenger]

Try posting this is the towing fourm for better response. There are a lot of 1st and 2nd gen owners that watch the towing forum that don't make it up here to the $pendy area.

 

[BNedset]

Thanks for the replies. The trailer is an enclosed tri-axle 44 footer running 9. 50 X 16. 50 tires, 18,000 lbs. It is used to haul a race car so trying to install a lift kit on the trailer isn't really an option. As it is right now, the car is hard to load so raising it another 4 inches would make it almost impossible. I may give a couple of trailer builder a call to get there recommendation. Trailer was originally purchased in 88 so it could be a problem with the latest greatest put it on the moon approach to building trucks. One thing I will give a try is taking out the spring shims.



Thanks again for the replies. I will repost on the Tow/Haul Forum site.

Bob

 

[y-knot]

I can feel your pain, Unfortunately you had to mess the paint and box up on your truck. Provably wish you could have re-thought that move?

I to have a race trailer, and know the construction of them. Most on this forum do not, they think in terms of there "camping trailer", the two are nothing alike. Camping trailers are built with 50's era springs and axles. They also know they are very likely to be taken to remote areas with limited access or to areas where terrain is rough. Trailers that are built for the movement of automobiles, are made very heavy (in comparison to other enclosed trailer), and with an empathies on maximum width and a very low loading height. Every trailer I know of for this purpose is equipped with independent Torsion suspension, it gives you the smoothest, most stable ride while keeping the trailer as low to the ground as possible. If you have ever pulled towed both types of trailers, you will very quickly notice how much more stable the car hauler is. I am very shocked to learn that someone built such a long trailer and did not equip it with an adjustable hitch. Most including mine has about 6" of adjustment.



Your have no way of adjusting or changing the axles on your trailer, so you are left with changing the trailers or trucks hitch. You can cut the hitch off and have a adjustable one installed. This is a major job, and much rides on the quality of the welds, I would make sure who ever does this is more then qualified, and knows his way around a trailer.

Some goose neck truck hitches are adjustable. I have a B&W turn over ball hitch. They sell several raised balls for that hitch which can be used to gain the bed clearance you need. This would definitely be easier then changing the trailers hitch, just depends on what works for you. I would not feel comfortable with less then 5 inches of truck bed to trailer overhang clearance. Six to seven inches is about ideal.

You can lower the back of your truck a little also to make it easier to back up to. This would be for convenience only, as it does nothing really to gain bed clearance. You best move would be to install the adjustable trailer hitch, it is the only option that truly addresses all the concerns. If you do go this route, I would measure the distance from ground to the bottom of the overhang while level. Then measure the height of the trucks bed floor while on level ground. The trick would be to try and keep the trailer as level as possible, while at the same time giving yourself the necessary clearance. Most truck beds are 19-20" tall plus the 6" for clearance, add this to the level truck bed height and compare that to the trailer at level. Also have the new adjustable hitch set to it's middle range of adjustment. As with most goose neck or fifth wheel trailers , you will probably have to be a little nose high.

Good luck with the dilemma, I would like to know how it turns out. I had roughly the same problem only my truck is a lifted 4x4. I got around the situation by ordering my trailer with a custom higher then stock over hang.

 

[JGoodwin]

there is a set up out there that elinimates the springs all together and rides on air bags but be aware of lack of sway bar

 

[crabjoe]

Would it be possible to just put bigger tires on the trailer and also remove the shims from your trucks axles?? That way you get a little lift on the trailer and reduce the height of your truck.

 

[ropinfool2]

Having worked at a trailer dealership as a mechanic, I will tell you that trailers with the torsion axles can be lifted. It is not cheap and depending on the frame of the trailer can be done safely. The other way would be to replace the existing axles with new ones with a higher lift. What will happen is the old axles will have to be cut off the frame, we used heavy wall square tubing, size depending on amount of lift, full length from front axle pad to rear axle pad(some others would use sections just under the pad of the axle), weld (stitch) it to the frame and then re-attach the axles in the exact location they came off. We would take the trailer down and have the axles aligned at the frame shop as part of our service. I've never seen a fixed g/n so can't help you there. New axles come in degrees of offset, if your existing axles are bolted on, piece of cake!!! If welded on then much of the above will still need to be done. good Luck. John

 

[RWS]

I just ordered a custom enclosed goose-neck for my rock crawler. Here is what you need to do. 1) Do the frame lift first, it will give you 2-3 inches of lift. 2) Find out the degreed axle you have now. (most are zero degree or even negative offset. ) (upstart) Call the manufacture of your axle and order either 22. 5 degree down-start (2. 5 inches higher than zero degree) or 45 degree down-start 5 inches higher) also order the high profile mount. You DON'T need a complete axle just the beam and down start arms. I found the 22. 5 degree axle and the frame lift gave me 5 inches of ground clearance I needed. The down fall of the 45 degree axle is you might have to move up to a heaver duty axle tube because they need more space in the tube for more rubber. The good news is it's only about $75 from Dexter. Hope I've helped. .

 

[khorn]

I have been reviewing a gooseneck install to replace the standard 5th hitch I am using as I have added a 10'9' camper and want to eliminate the rails. Are there considerations other than the clearance issue to watch out for? Any gotchas?

 

[scotty1]

I sure can relate to your issues. replacing the bed on my 01 after trying to hook up to the 5er after a rain storm that sunk it and the truck was on soggy grass.



I know why you cannot raise your trailer. You need to clear the ramp of the trailer with your race car.



A few things a friend of mine did...



Lowered the back end of his Ram, put the 2" spacer on the front of his ram and made an extension for his rear ramp door.

He also cranked up his landing gear on the trailer whenever he was loading his dragster. Basically he tackled all the angles in the most economical way.

He did however add airbags in the rear so he had a level truck loaded and empty.



Hope this helps.



I've also seen folks trim down the bed rails a couple of inches.



One friend cut the bed rail tops off... then trimmed it down and then re-welded them... lots of work that probably would have been cheaper to put on a tow deck. That was the other option a friend of mine did... bought a flat deck off a wrecked truck and altered it and painted to match... problem solved again.



Its not all about DC having the trucks raised like a 4x4 for no reason... I looked and the frame is not like on a GM. However, I do agree, they make them sit too high overall for towing a trailer sometimes. . depending on the trailer too.





You'll get a solution.

 

[y-knot]

Bob,

Another way to get the back of your truck down would be to remove the spacer between the axle and the spring pack. While you are in there, go ahead and remove the overload spring pack and it spacer. You will most likely need shorter U-bolts after the remove all . Then install a set of Air Lift or Firestone 5,000lb air bags, these will more then carry any load that the overload springs would have. You should also have a good air compressor like the Quick Air II or better along with a small tank. But the benefits are a much improved ride both loaded and non-loaded, the overloads are no longer there to slap the spring stops and make for a rough ride. You can now have your truck ride height adjustable so loaded or UN-loaded you have a level truck. the system will run about 230 for the airbags and another 400. 00 for compressor and tank, but I have never regretted spending the money, I have an ultra smooth highway ride and more then enough capacity to pull our 15,000lb+ goose neck enclosed trailer. You may still have to install an adjustable goose neck hitch for the trailer, that depends on high much depth the hitch allows you. Something stinks somewhere, I have never seen a non-adjustable hitch like your trailer has, that odd. Any pictures?

 

[JRG]

I agree with y-knot's posts. If I were in your situation that is exactly how I would look at it.



Also, the first post that he (y-not) made, would even give you a better loading angle, like scott1's freind did.



JRG

 

[run2trouble]

Put a flatbed on the truck. That is what I did.

 

[BNedset]

Well, I'm Back. Wish I would have seen Y-Knots post for pictures earlier, even had the digital camera with me. I was up north where the trailer is kept, 250 miles away. This kind of makes if hard to do simple measurements to really figure what is going on. The trailer is just sitting out in the yard, so nothing is really level. I will post pictures of the situation when I can get the trailer home, either after this coming weekend or after next weekend at the latest. I am going to use the old Ford to pull it home. I have to figure something real soon as race season has started and am loosing ground for points for next season national events.



Had a chance to look at the goose neck. The trailer MFG. , (Shiolino out of Fortworth Tx. ) eliminated the 4 1/2" outside tube of the adjustable hitch, just welded in the 4" tube. This was one of the better builders at the time. This was a common practice back then as I remember a lot of different MFG's doing the same thing. I'm not quite sure what all was done, but the outer gooseneck rails actually go around the tube to give it added support. This will make it real expensive to replace it. Not only is it supported 360 degrees, but gusseted to the back side and also covered over the top. This is real heavy duty construction. It looks like changing the coupler is going to be out of the question.

I'm not sure that I want to play with the springs (double leaf springs per axle) on the trailer. If I raise the trailer springs what appears to be the required 4 or 5 inches, loading and unloading will be a real nightmare, even ramp extensions would not work, I would have to unhook every time I wanted the car in or out. I am also not sure how the trailer would handle with the center of gravity moved up that high. I may investigate air bags, but am starting to look at a newer one. I think that what it would cost to do all of the necessary modifications, I might be better off with a new one.



Bob

 

[scotty1]

Bob, I think you are right about that. Get the trailer that fits the truck. I can see a few benefits... new trailer and components as well as not altering the truck. Sounds like a lot less headache and much simpler.



Scotty

 

[Gypsyman]

I just picked up a new H & H enclosed gooseneck car hauler. Since I have a 4 x 4 I was very worried about bed clearance. Almost had them add a 3" lift to it just to make sure. Two things about H & H. They build them to fit the new 4 x 4's and the rear ramp door goes all the way up to the header, so if you add additional height the ramp door automatically get extended. Sits dead level and still has over 10" of bed clearance.



Just my . 02