Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Carter 4601 set up help

[craxy4cummins]

I have installed a p4601 in the stock lift pump location and it lasted about 2 months. After that I had several people tell me to eliminate the stock pump location and install it on the frame next to the fuel tank so I did. Lasted about 2 months again. I exchanged it for another one and bought a spare. I have seen people on here with 2 on there truck on the frame next to the tank. Does anyone have any suggestions and pictures of what I should do? I don't want to spend the money for a fass or anything at this point so any help would be great!!

Thanks

 

[R-N-R]

Many have used a 4601 on the frame and a 4600 in the stock location with success. Replacing the lines and banjos with free flowing fittings seems to be a big benefit as well. I used 2 4601s, one on the frame and one at the stock location. Then added a bypass regulator (set at 14psi) between the filter and VP. I also replaced all the lines and fittings. Including a replacement pump from cummins and a 4601 from Summit, my setup wound up costing close to what a FASS type system runs.



For you, I would start with the 4601 on the frame and replace the banjos with fittings such as Russell, Earls, or Aeroquip. You could also consider a kit, I have been hearing great things about the Vulcan big line kit, very affordable and high quality. Check it out here.



Hope this helps,

Bill

 

[craxy4cummins]

I have installed all -6 fuel lines from the pump to the VP44 and replaced all the banjos with -6 earls from summit 2 4601s ago. What would happen if I hooked up both 4601s together and does anyone have any pics with two on the frame ?

 

[PatrickCampbell]

here is my setup:

#ad




check out http://xj.cdevco.net/auto/fuelsystem for details.

 

[R-N-R]

Whoops, sorry I missed that in your sig. two 4601s whether together on the frame or one at each end, will put a lot of pressure to VP and may induce a hard starting situation. I use 2, but I also use a regulator to bring down the pressure to 14psi.



The trick to making the carter pumps last is to use two of them concurrently.

This is my setup:

#ad


I plan to add a ball valve bypass to the engine mounted carter this winter.



EDIT: Where are you getting your 4601 units from?

 

[craxy4cummins]

I ordered all of them from summit racing, I do have 2 4601s now. What kind of regulator should I get and can I get the ball valves from any hardware store? Also will both pumps run off the same relay/factory wire?

Thanks for the help guys

 

[R-N-R]

I used an Aeromotive Universal Bypass Regulator from Summit Racing. You will also need a plug, I used an Aeroquip plug. Then of course you will need barbed or push lock fittings to connect to your hose.



I used a LP "Y" harness that came in a kit from TDR member Olee Poole (opoole) of Power by Poole. You may also be able to souce the harness from Vulcan Performance.



I did use 3/8 NPT Brass Ball Valves from a local hardware store. Of course you will need the barbed or pushlock fittings for this as well.



Hope this helps,

Bill

 

[GWedekind]

My opinion, stay away from the Carter 4601's.



I just got done posting about fuel pump failures and had some interseting observations. I cut one of my 2 dead 4601's apart and found that the bypass is what fails. If you compare the stock Carter to the 4601 you can see a big difference ibn how the bypass is made. My guess is the heat absorbed in the fuel from the factory return system is what is killing frame mounted 4601's.



If you run a return style system like RNR shows in his diagram >>>MAYBE<<< you may get them to live. Too many people have complained that their 4601's dont last but Im sure that none of the pumps were run like a return system.



I like the return system concept and think that it cant hurt and can only help extend life of a pump.

 

[Milo Pig]

I just killed a 4601, it lasted about a month. I am currently installing a Mallory 140 pump and regulator. I will post results later this afternoon or tomorrow.



Sean

 

[JR2]

I too tried a 4601 down on the frame with upgraded lines and all, it performed worse than a stock lift pump on the frame rail. Its now sitting on the bench waiting to be used for some other project. If you want to run a pump down on the frame, try the stock pump. I have had fairly good luck, but still killed a few of them.



I would suggest saving up for a FASS or RASP. That is what I am doing, I want to fix my problem not just throw pumps at it.

 

[DLausche]

I too replaced all my fittings and lines with -8 and installed a 4601 down on the frame rail. Worked good for about a week and a half and then very little, if any, fuel pressure. So, I got another 4601 and swapped it out. Lasted one day and then no fuel pressure. Both pumps were running fast with no audible load detectable. I suspect the bypass is stuck open on both of them. I now have a Holley pump and the pressures are not as good as I was hoping for.



I will not buy another Carter 460x pump. My opinion is to stay away from them.



-Deon

 

[GWedekind]

Stretch your bypass spring and you can get 15 psi easy out of a blue pump. Wide open they produce about 25-30.

 

[JCutter]

What if you mounted it around the stock location without the bypass and no other pump. What kind of psi would you see then? Just courious.

 

[keimmmo]

ANY electric pump likes to push fuel, not pull it. You still have trouble with an engine mounted pump... just different ones. I run the stock LP just in front of the tank. The last one lasted 80k.



There are a couple of threads going right now about cooling the fuel. I think it is QUITE possible that heat is killing the aftermarket pumps... and contributing to the death of the stock pumps.



Steve Keim

 

[R-N-R]

About 18psi, many run this but I think the VP is happiest at 12-14psi. My opinion is that this probably the least reliable solution due to the location and pump model. PbP, Vulcan, and others have economical relocation kits available. As far as 460x pumps are concerned, I believe that the frame mounted 4601 (18psi) and engine mounted 4600 (7psi) combination to be the most reliable setup. Upgrading to less restrictive fittings should be automatic whatever solution is used. Unfortunately this gets expensive when socketless fittings and hose are used, but it is a lot better looking than double clamps on each connection.



My setup cost about as much as a FASS system. A couple of the features that I can think of are the abililty to regulate at the pump and repair it with parts as opposed to replacing the pump itself. But if I was going that route I would hold off and jump for the RASP which I feel is the better of both worlds. A RASP/FASS combo would be the ultimate I suppose.



The regulator is intended to relieve the VP of the task to return excess fuel to the tank while ensuring a steady flow adequate to the pumps fueling and cooling needs. I like to think that the regulator it is returning cooler fuel than the VP does. At least that is what I am telling myself :-laf



fwiw,

R-N-R

 

[R-N-R]

There are a couple of threads going right now about cooling the fuel. I think it is QUITE possible that heat is killing the aftermarket pumps... and contributing to the death of the stock pumps.

I think that is a safe bet

 

[kkmckinney]

Buy an Aux. lift pump kit from www.bd-power.com and keep the OEM lift pump. Always carry a spare OEM lift pump and install a fuel pressure gauge. The gauge will tell when the lift pump fails and you will still have plenty of fuel pressure but you will to need change the OEM lift at your convenience. Both pumps are not very expensive. I have only had one lift pump failure with this system and the labor to replace it was $90.

KEN

 

[JR2]

Stretch your bypass spring and you can get 15 psi easy out of a blue pump. Wide open they produce about 25-30.

Which is too much pressure, the magic number is 14. Anything more and you rish hard starts. Besides its not about pressure, its about flow. You need both and tests have shown that flow is more important that pressure.