Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Carter 4601HP

[TXRam]

Well,



I installed the pump on the frame rail along with 3/8" fuel line from the tank to the injector pump. BUT I am only getting 8psi post-filter (pre-filter is about 8 1/4 psi) at idle, 7psi cruising 70mph, very little drop WOT. Isn't this pump supposed to put up 14-16psi? I changed the overflow valve . . . you were right Nowel, not the problem - no change.



Even when I just bump the starter to get the lift pump running, I get 8psi immediately and holds steady until the pump stops.



I wonder if I got the 4600HP instead??? The box and the pump both say 4601HP though!



Any thoughts? Should I try to swap Summit for another pump? Problem is I bought is a few months ago, but I just installed it last weekend.



Thanks Guys!

 

[KatDiesel]

Just to clarify things, you installed a single pump back by the tank and removed or bypassed the stock pump?



Or did you install this one as a pusher pump?

 

[TXRam]

Removed the stock pump and all but the first ~3' of the fuel supply line coming out of the tank. I now have 3/8" SS tubing all the way with SwageLok fittings (modified NPT side to same thread as the banjo bolts) and a 3/8" rubber fuel line section in between each connection (i. e. , in between the filter and the injector pump there is a short section of rubber hose, etc. ).

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

THE 4601 is rated 15 psi, 100 gph FREE FLOW... No spec available for flow AT that 15 psi tho! It *might not* flow as well at desired pressure as the original stock pump, if internal restrictions create a flow bottleneck when used as the ONLY pump in the system - I can easily visually see a SUBSTANTIAL restriction in/out of the 4600 Carter I will probably be installing later today, in SPITE of it's impressively sized external opening and fuel line capabilities... The biggest dern EXTERNAL port in the world doesn't mean beans if the INTERNAL ports are restricted!



I suspect the stock pump MIGHT suffer from similar internal restrictions - anyone who's had one off comment? In any event, with the more popular current pumps, it still seems that running dual pumps offers the most reliable pressure/flow for most of us...



By the way, ran a quick preliminary test on my stock truck at rest, and get 15 psi at idle (right at the VP44), drops about 2 lbs at around 2000 rpm - will test it on the road later this morning, before installing my Carter 4600... At least that's the plan...

 

[JR2]

I wonder if you got a bad pump out of the box. I know of a couple of guys that used the 4601 and had good results till the pump died.



Right now I am running a stock lift pump back by the tanks with SS -6 lines and have 12-13psi at idle and no less than 7 at WOT with the Comp set on Kill. Most of the time at WOT the press drops to 7 for an instant and then starts climbing right away. I have my waring light set at 6 and on real hard excel up steep hills I might see it blink once and then I climb back to 8-9 for the rest of the hill. I guess what I am saying is your pump is not working good or you have a restriction somwhere.



If you have time you might try your old stock pump (assuming its good) back by the tank and see what you get. That would at least tell you that you lines are good.



John

 

[Jetson]

My 4601HP gave 14psi, but it was VERY noisy mounted on the frame. It lasted about 6 months, then died.

 

[Red360]

Will the stock pump fit the carter bracket? It sure looks like it would.

 

[tmacc]

TXRam,

I'd hit Summit for a new pump. Those figure sure sound like a 4600 don't they. On my Westach FP gauge I get 16psi at idle, 13. 5-14. 5psi at cruise and never below 10. 5psi at WOT w/ the comp on kill. My 4601 pump has 11k on it at this point and has produced those figures since new. I put a piece of 3/16" hard rubber between the bracket and the rail and it reduced the noise substantially.



I tried the Summit Billet Pump (twice), but they both leaked. Avoid that pump!!! Summit was very good about returning parts. I wouldn't think it would be a problem.



BTW is that 3/8" SS line you are using the ID or OD dimension? I wouldn't think it would matter all that much since the stock line necks down to 5/16" before the stock lift pump. Just curious.

 

[TXRam]

Gary, I checked the pressure with the pump "dead-headed" (i. e. , no flow) by bumping the starter and letting the pump run - that's when it should give max pressure.



Red360, the stock pump should fit the bracket - the pumps appear to be identical dimensions. The problem is the line fitting size for the stock pump is that weird metric thread on the banjo bolts.



Yeah, tmacc, that's exactly what I was thinking! I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what they say about swapping pumps. As for the tubing diameter, I believe all SS tubing is sized in OD (I know mine is, and it is thin wall), so that no matter what wall thickness (i. e. , pressure rating) that it is, the compressions fittings are all for 3/8, 1/2, etc. My system is WAY better than stock, and I would bet as good as the Aeroquip, etc. , systems, and cheaper for me (cost me about $30). Also, thanks for your e-mail - very helpful. I am running from the ECM straight to the pump right now, but I'll most likely add the relay pretty soon.



I mounted the bracket to the frame with a couple of layers of bicycle inner-tube between the bracket and frame. You can definitely hear the pump cycle when you turn on the key. But once the engine is started, I can't distinguish it at all.



Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!

 

[TXRam]

Talked with Summit this morning ...

and they are going to send me another pump! Great customer service, especially since their website says that they don't warrant the Carter pumps because of the typical uses. I'll definitely continue using them for other items that I "need".



I'll update this once I get the new pump installed.

 

[Red360]

Where do you guys get your fittings if one were to remove the stock pump and place it on the frame rail?... i. e. I know the banjo fittings have metric threads, so where do you get say a metric barb fitting? TIA

 

[ARARAR]

What's the difference?

What's the difference between the stock Carter pump and the 4601 and what's the difference in price?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Dunno what you mean by the "stock Carter" pump - they make a number of different ones, in various pressure/flow ratings - the 4601 is rated 15 psi, and 100 gph at free-flow - sells for $82 at Jegs...



If you mean the stock LP in the Dodge, dunno what it's spec is, understand DC gets about $150 for them...

 

[HVAC]

RED360, I use "Weber Fittings". They are metric on one side and -6 (3/8) on the other. They will fit all the fuel housings in the engine compartment (lift pump, filter, VP44). From there you can use Aeroquip, Earl's, etc.



TXRam, does that fine pump have an ajustable bypass? All the pumps I've tinkered with have come with the bypass set very close. Just wonderin' if you could put a couple turns on the adjustment to get your pressures up to spec.

 

[TXRam]

Nowel, "fine"? - I don't know about that, cheap and works - that's my reasoning. I was wondering if it was possible to adjust the pressure, but couldn't see any obvious way to do it. I'll just wait to get the replacement from Summit - the way I've got it set-up, it'll only take about 15mins to swap 'em out.



arar, the stock DC pump (made by Carter) from Cummins is about $130-$150. From DC it's about $350 by the quote that I got from them about a year ago. This pump (Carter 4601HP) was $79. 95 at Summit when I ordered it a few months ago - I think they're $82. 95 now. It looks just like the stock pump other than it's black epoxy coated and different electrical connections, but I'm positive that it has a higher capacity (since the pressure will not drop as much at WOT as a stock pump).

 

[Red360]

HVAC- Where do you get these "weber fittings"? I looked in the Jegs catalog and didn't see them.



Has anyone run a Holley "Pro Series Black Pump"? It is a high output fuel pump, pre-set at 14 psi and flows 120 GPH while maintaining 9 PSI. It draws 4 amps and is compatible with alcohol and methanol. $139. 99 at Jegs.

 

[Red360]

I forgot to add that this Holley pump free flows 140 GPH. The Jegs part number is 510-12-815-1.

 

[HVAC]

Those weber fittings aren't hard to find. Try racehose.com. The fittings are 12mm x 1. 5 pitch/ 3/8 mfl.



I've run the 12-815 holley. It wasn't too impressive. Never failed, just a bit weak for my taste.

 

[tmacc]

Red360,

The weber fitting that HVAC is referring to is Summit part # EAR-991944. It's not listed in the cataloge. This is a male flare fitting that threads into the fuel filter housing and DC lift pump. You will need a AN-6 female flare fitting, similar to # EAR-800106 to attach you fuel line to this fitting. Like TXRam said, w/ some marine grade electrical blade connectors and a couple of wretches, you can R&R a pump in 15 min. That includes a trip to the fridge for a beer before you start.

 

[Red360]

Thanks for the info. I'm planning on removing my stock lift pump and put in place of my pusher pump this weekend. So if I have this right, I'll need three 12mm x 1. 5 pitch/ -6 fittings, two for the pump and one for the filter housing and either new hoses with -6 fittings or 3 3/8" barb fittings. Sound about right?