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Cat Converter of 2005?

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JFulford

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I just purchased a 2005 QC SB from a Ford dealer with 127K. A bit dinged up but very inexpensive. Looked it over on the rack for 1/2 hour. Still in really good shape.

However, after driving it for a couple weeks, I noticed that there is NO cat converter on it(as well as no resonater, just a muffler). It all looks professionally done--very clean welds, stock positions, aged pipe, etc).

My question is, did all 2005s have cats, and should I replace this one? In Missouri, there is no emissions test on 8600 or greater trucks, but if it was original, do I legally need to have it on there?

Thanks

jeff
 
04. 5 and up have cats on them. Guess you can play dumb and say you bought it that way. I think the Feds are going to push all states to do smog on our trucks. We are a "green" state here in Calif. thought we were a "blue" state so we will probably have it shoved down our throats first.
 
Cat converter on 2005

p-BAR,

Thanks for the response. I don't have to "play" dumb on this one! However,

looks like I should look into getting it replaced at some point in the near future.

Anybody with any ideas on 4" cats for the beast?

jeff
 
Well I agree with p-BAR, I would just leave it like it is as long as your ok with the exhaust. The Cats are expensive. If you don't have any issues with emission testing I would wait until you do.



But if you really want to get one.



This is price from Dodge Parts Online Parts & Accessories Catalog

catalytic converter, ram 2500, 3500, 5. 9l diesel 04-07 List = $1,090. 00 Core = $200. 00 Your price = $776. 40
 
Whoa! Maybe I will wait... . They might get cheaper after a couple years. Wonder if anybody has any sitting around they might want to get rid of while the "test" pipe is on;)

Anyway, Thanks for the info. Confirms what I suspected.

jeff
 
I'd let some muffler shops know you are looking for a take off from someone that has had them remove their, they usually go to the recycle pile so it might work good for both of you. just a thought
 
Sound like a good idea. Better than the Magnaflow 60421 for 446. 95. And I've got a bit of waiting time.

jeff
 
I would go back to the dealer and tell them they sold you a non-smog compliant vehicle. Let them pay to have it replaced. Even if your state doesn't have smog inspections yet, The truck came with it no matter what. Whether they inspect or not, The truck is NON COMPLIANT. The cats on the pre '07. 5 trucks don't restrict much at all. Not really an advantage to remove it. My $0. 02
 
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Get the dealership/seller to provide and install one at no charge.



Their sale was/is illeagal.



No way can they profit by selling illeagally modified non-compliant emmissions vehicles.



Don't even argue hard with dealer, be respectful, give them benifit of the doubt re "not noticing" but don't go for split the cost strategies.



The liability belongs to them entirely.



Ask firmly, in person, one time.



If they refuse calmly inform them that state/federal emmissions office and local better business office are your next phone calls.



No raised voice, firm composure.



Sooner done the better.



Please no flamming from those who say "to heck" with regulations because when these things are discovered, vehicle is immediately impounded and hugh fines levied.



As previous poster noted, factory catalytic converter has excellent flow numbers so insist that dealership install brand new OEM cat and make them show you their paperwork verifying that they purchased OEM emmissions equipment and keep a copy for yourself.



If you let them slide on a "used" or equivalent cat there's no telling if it flows well and/or is effectively doing its job.
 
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Get the dealership/seller to provide and install one at no charge.

Their sale was/is illeagal.

No way can they profit by selling illeagally modified non-compliant emmissions vehicles.

Don't even argue hard with dealer, be respectful, give them benifit of the doubt re "not noticing" but don't go for split the cost strategies.

The liability belongs to them entirely.

Ask firmly, in person, one time.

If they refuse calmly inform them that state/federal emmissions office and local better business office are your next phone calls.

No raised voice, firm composure.

Sooner done the better.

Please no flamming from those who say "to heck" with regulations because when these things are discovered, vehicle is immediately impounded and hugh fines levied.

As previous poster noted, factory catalytic converter has excellent flow numbers so insist that dealership install brand new OEM cat and make them show you their paperwork verifying that they purchased OEM emmissions equipment and keep a copy for yourself.

If you let them slide on a "used" or equivalent cat there's no telling if it flows well and/or is effectively doing its job.

AMEN Brother! Good approach! I think that this approach would NICELY encourage them to take care of you. Just don't let them put some rinky dink aftermarket cat on.
 
JimB1

I think I'll try what you suggest. They claim to be the largest Ford dealer in Missouri and were very nice to me(originally). I just hope it doesn't end up badly(with them).

jeff
 
every vehicle that I have touched, the cats magically fall off somehow,



by the way its illegal for a dealership/muffler shop to remove and leave off the cat, in most states where they don't have stupid hippies running the government, the customer can remove the cats themselves or have them fall off if thats how they want to word it. and remember, cats restrict flow, which will hurt mileage, if you don't have to have it on leave it off.
 
JimB1
I think I'll try what you suggest. They claim to be the largest Ford dealer in Missouri and were very nice to me(originally). I just hope it doesn't end up badly(with them).
jeff

Jeff, Don't delay any more than you have too addressing this to them. Delay would give them reason to think that maybe YOU pulled the cat off.
 
mopartech,

I don't think the dealership had removed it. The welds and pipe had pretty much rust on it. It wasn't a new mod. There was only one owner in Missouri, according to carfax.

In my driving career, I've only seen 1 emmisions roadside inspection, and that wasn't in Missouri, it was in Indiana or Ohio, I think.

jeff
 
Motorhead,

Yeah, I'm going to call my guy on Weds; I'll have my oil analysis by then and I can finish both items off. The dealer is 2 hours from my house(I live in St. Louis, they are in Columbia) and I'll try to deal with this over the phone. I wish I would have noticed this when it was up on the rack, but I was looking for leaks and rust and my 2003 does Not have a cat, so I didn't notice it.

jeff
 
If you get a sharp person doing your inspection when you come up for tag renewal, you have to put it back on at your expense before you can get your tags. JimB1 is correct. In the State of Missouri, it is illegal for anyone to sell a emission modified vehicle. I had a friend who sold his pick up that his son drove and had some exhaust work done, he had to have the cats re-installed or face a bunch of fines.
 
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JFulford, For a dealership to make it right for you, translates into going backwards for them.



For them to be nice on the front end of the deal is good BUT that should be expected where resonable buyers and sellers meet and profit for goods are realized.



Losing money in the process of honoring business liabilities are an entirely different mix of incentives and in the automobile dealership market or any other market, being nice quickly disappears, especially under current bleak economic conditions.



Prepare to be "professionaly probed" on their part as first strategy in determining what it takes to satisfy you.



2 hour commute could well be something they'll factor in, trying to wear you out making multiple phone calls and trips to get things done.



Don't get sucked into multiple phone calls (maybe 2-3) or multiple trips, 2 trips max.



If you decide to call first, then I suggest predeciding (to yourself) of a short calander timetable of two variations.



1) via 'phone (one minute after they open) you've initiated conversation with person of authority who acknowledges dealership has liability and desires to inspect vehicle.



-ideally this phone negotiation all happens in same business day you called without too much run around BUT no later than end of second business day this negotiation is complete and inspection is going to happen at aggreed time/date, soon as is convenient for you.



-upon arrival and inspection confirms as you've called out, you get a copy of the inspection reort AND on that report or an accompanying document linked to the inspection report is their Purchase Order# for factory OEM cat or their clear unambigous document statement of their intent to purchase and when and all parts and labor at NO cost to you. No bill splitting, period.



-it should further be understood that the next and only time (soon) you're back will be to have OEM cat installed and you'll definitely require a copy of their purchase paperwork of item installed, for your vehicles history records.



Refusing to give you a copy means they're substituting used and/or lesser aftermarket item rather than OEM.



If they don't want to deal along these lines only means they've decided to apply a multitude of wear you down strategies "I've got to talk to my manager about this".



Any time a mid-level person says I've got to clear this with my manager, your response (polite but firm) must be "thank you, please introduce me to your manager" and make it clear you're FINISHED dealing with the mid-level person until all aggrements at the next higher level have been completed and then the mid-level person can be involved with executing said aggrements.



Putting up with mid-level mngr making multiple trips to "his boss" for authorizations creates wide open highway of wiggle room for those two to have "misunderstood" what your positions and their aggreements were.



On this issue deal only with level of mngr authorized to "seal the deal"



2) alternate variation is if initial phone call doesn't result in satisfactory negotiation by end of 2nd business day, then inform them you're completely finished with any dealership contact what-so-ever and state/federal emissions and better business bureau are your next calls.



Likewise with 1st trip to dealership for verification inspection, everything follows the above protocols OR you politely back away having informed them who you (and eventually they) are dealing with next.



This is just business, don't take it personal, remain above board, respectfull and professional.



It's in their interest to do everything possible to not lose money.



If you'd like some motivation, go to various state/federal emissions & testing websites and verify illeagaly modified factory emissions equipment fines and impoundment protocols.



I'm positive it's several thousand dollars, could be $5000-$10,000 out of your pocket by time your vehicle is compliant.



I've a good plug of experience working/managing projects/contracts in the $5 to $10 million dollar range.



When you're dealing with managers that only look at X's and O's, the protocols called out here are what it takes to get you past the "butt sniffing" stage of things.
 
JimB1

Thanks for all the info. I've been buying cars for 30 years and I guess some things just don't change with some automotive sales places. I hope this goes well.

I was all prepared to do the work myself. Paying just under 14 for the truck, I figured it was a really good deal and I would just eat the cost. I wish I would have noticed it on the rack but, like I mentioned, I only had my '03 to compare it to.

On the good side of this negotiation, I have my sister who lives in Columbia and is a hard negotiator. I just have to keep her prepped on everything. She loves to do this sort of thing. Maybe I'll get away with 1 trip, if I can get away with it.

Again, thanks for all the info--it confirmed what I though I knew all ready.

jeff
 
If the dealer does not want to take care of it, just inform them your next stop will be the Highway Patrol. Then take your inspection receipt that they give to get your tags to your Highway Patrol troop and show them. They will take care of it, guaranteed!! The dealer will be wrote up, fined, and possibly loose their permit to inspect vehicles.
 
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