CDL and GVWR Info.

[Tagalong]

Folks, I hope this post will shed some light on a series of questions developing as a result of a couple of my posts regarding GVWR and licensing requirements while traveling through various states. I'll quote from the Commercial Driver's License Manual (Massachusetts Document Number: 10026 50M G001718 10/97) Verson 2. 0
(There may be a later version but given the way the Feds work, this information may still be in effect. ) The Preface: Mass. CDL Information states;
"On October 26, Congress passed the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986. This law required each State to meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. The standards required commercial motor vehicle drivers to get a Commercial Driver's License (CDL). You must have a CDL to operate any of the following Commercial Motor Vehicles (CMV's):
A. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 pounds.
B. A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross comgination weight rating is more than 26,000 pounds.
C. A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more persons (including the operator).
D. Any size vehicle which requires hazardous materials placards. "
The CDL is a Nation wide license requirement. I would tend to think that what's written above would be the norm across the country.
If any of you know of any different Weight or
licensure requirements feel free to make any corrections.
Mass. License classifications are as follows:
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B - Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C - Any single vehicle that is less than 26,001 pounds GVWR, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 GVWR, that is placarded for hazardous materials or designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the operator.
The above obviously deals with the COMMERCIAL DRIVER. The question should really be, "given the GCVWRs of many or our rigs, how do States classify them? Especially if we're NOT DRIVING FOR HIRE!!
I hope this info is enlightening.


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White 2001, 3500, Auto,3:54,QC,2WD,LB,34' DBL slide Cardinal 5er

[This message has been edited by Tagalong (edited 02-19-2001). ]

 

[Alan Reagan]

This confuses it a little more. Note the with the class C license, you are restricted to a towing vehicle under 10,000 and a vehickle weight less than 26001.

DRIVER'S LICENSE CLASSIFICATION

Georgia driver's license are classified according to the type and weight of vehicles which may be operated by the person to whom they are issued.

Class A

Truck tractor-semitrailer combination in which the combination weight exceeds 26,001 pounds and trailing unit exceeds 10,000 poundsand vehicles in Class B and C. Applicants must possess a Class C license before obtaining a Class A and be at least 18 years of age.

A single driver's license, with a combination of classifications, will be issued to qualified persons who wish to drive various types of vehicles.

Applicants for a drivers license in Classes A or B (non-commercial) must submit a DPS form #36 (Affidavit showing minimum driving experience of 3 months and/or 3,000 miles in type of vehicle for class of license being applied for. )

Class B

Single vehicles weighing 26,001 or more pounds; may tow a trailing unit of less than 10,000 pounds; and motor vehicles included within Class C. Applicants must possess a Class C license prior to obtaining a Class B license and be at least 18 years of age.

Class C

Motor vehicles less than 26,001 pounds and all vehicles not included within Classes A, B and M. This includes passenger cars, trucks and vehicles pulling a trailing unit that weighs less than 10,000 pounds. All recreational vehicles may be operated with a class C license. Applicant must be at least 18 years of age.

 

[Larry Willard]

Tagalong
I think the key word in that is commercial, but you raise a good point about the trailer over 10000 lbs though. I checked here in MD and was told that if private trailer not used in commerce didn't need a CDL, but many of us have 5ers over 10000. I will be doing some checking on that though. I am not worried about myself since I do have the CDL but want to satisify my curiosity.
Larry

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Ram Rod
'01 3500 white quad cab sport 4x4 ETH DEE SLT+ 4:10s posi Pac brake combo gauge tow/camper pkg. 20k reese 5th hitch
35' holiday rambler 5th wheel

 

[Larry Willard]

Forgot to add, MD does issue non CDL liscenses of the same class as CDL.
Larry

 

[rickhans]

I have posted several responses and questions recently trying to get an accurate answer as to what is being said. I don't think the entire picture is being looked at because nobody has yet quoted the drivers license regulations pertaining to NON-COMMERCIAL drivers license. I was told by the Texas Highway Patrol that with a Texas Class C NON-Commercial Drivers license (referred to on the license as DL, as opposed to CDL for a commercial license) I can tow any combination of weight so long as the sum total is less than 26,001 pounds. I specifically used the example of a 13k trailer with equipment on it, not an RV, with my RAM. He said that if I exceeded 26,000 then I could not legally tow anywhere without first obtaining a commercial drivers license.

I believe that these regulations every one keeps quoting relate only to commercial operations which require commercial drivers license. One technicality I question that I have not been able to get an answer to is the CDL statement that the 10k requirement does not apply to RV trailers, but does to equipment trailers. The implication is that I would have to have a CDL to tow the equipment trailer even if towing for personal purposes, not for business.

However, if you read the requirements to get a CDL, the 2500 Ram with a dual axle gooseneck would not qualify to even take the CDL driving tests for several reasons. One is that they require air brakes on the equipment . Some items listed can be waived, but this is not one of them. Evey one was closed today so I could not get any more answers on this from Texas DPS. I will try again tomorrow.

If anyone has specific knowledge about these issues I have raised please respond. I need to purchase the trailer and equipment in the next few weeks and this obviously could affect what I do.

 

[rob10858]

our trucks do not haul for hire, we haul to take our equip from one job to another. we all drive one ton's because of the weight that we haul. we all [except for our larger trucks] gross combination under 26000. we all are interstate drivers. we are basically driver, salesmen. forget rvs, forget hotshot haulers, where do we fall in this equation?

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[Windrider]

Beware, this is long!

I'm not a commercial driver, and profess no profound knowledge of the law, but I think that the key is B.

"B. A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000 pounds. "

The GCWR is the maximum weight rated for a given drivetrain/truck. All Dodge trucks have a GCWR less than 22,000 pounds and thus can tow trailers up to 15,150 lbs. (1 ton HO) without needing a CDL unless you are pursuing commerce (getting paid to pull).

To be sure that a class A license is required (I'm 90% sure it's not. ) you would have to look at the legal definition of "vehicle".

Since trailer and vehicle are mentioned seperately in all parts of the statute as posted. I am assuming (I hate that word) that a trailer is not a vehicle, but is a trailer so a Class A license would not apply in this case. (Trailers and vehicles being seperate legal entities under the law per my assumption. )

A class A license would probably apply for large tow trucks because the GVWR of the tow truck and the truck that is being pulled would exceed 26,000 pounds.

Notice that a light duty tow truck towing a light duty truck or any passenger vehicle would not have a combined (both vehicles) GVWR over about 22,000 lbs assuming that both the tow truck and the towed vehicle were 1 ton trucks.

So the question is:
What is the legal definition of the word "vehicle"?

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2001 HO Forest Green Quad Cab
On Order!

[This message has been edited by Windrider (edited 02-20-2001). ]

 

[Alan Reagan]

Finally reached someone from the Ga Dept of Public Safety and here's what they said. In Georgia, the recreational user can drive/pull anything they want without a CDL as long as it doesn't exceed the 26001 pound limit. But... here's the catch, if you exceed the gross combined weight on the towing vehicle's ID tag, then they can get you for that even if you are recreational. Probably the only time they would be interested in that is in case of an accident. In other words, they aren't going to weigh you, force you to keep a log book, or anything else. Clear now?

 

[rob10858]

thats all pretty much true as far as rvs go, most states really arent concerned with private use vehicles, and you shouldnt be concerned with any of the cdl laws because of the way you use your truck and trailor. what ive been trying to find out is that, if you work for a company that uses one tons to transport equipment across state lines, in the performance of your job, and lets make this clear, you are not a for hire driver, nor a common carrier, but a contractor that has to use the 3500's to safely handle the weight of your load, where do you stand in the eyes of federal laws. they supercede all state laws, as far as transportation across state lines. no state laws can exempt or overide federal regs as far as the usdot is concerned. if you only traveled in your home state, thats the only regs that you would be concerned with, but when you go across state lines, the federal laws come into effect. thats the biggest difference. forget what your state dot tells you, if you are interstate, look at the fed dot regs, there you will get the true picture of what the laws mean.

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[Alan Reagan]

Packman, I think that your question falls into the category of Private Carrier, Not for Hire. That is regulated by DOT. Second, I received a written response from Georgia DOT on the classes. I'll include the text of the entire email so you can see the question. The response is first.

From: Vicki Sheddan [Department of Public Safety, State of Georgia]

Class C allows only up to 10, 000 lbs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Reagan
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:57 AM
Subject: Comments and Questions

Comments from page: Georgia Department of Public Safety

The question..... The Class C license definition states that any recreational vehicle can be operated with the Class C. Does this include pulling a travel trailer over 10,000 pounds? Classes A and B seem to be the only classes that allow the driver to pull over 10,000 pounds.


I'll see what they say about out of state license. Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan Reagan (edited 02-22-2001). ]

 

[rob10858]

thanks for the info alan. i can see what is happening here as far as the regs go. what we seem to have here are regulations that are full of loopholes and exceptions that nobody can clearly define. as all types of pickups get more powerful and heavier gvws [we have a couple of ford 550 psds that, although they are still "pickups" have a larger rear end, frame, and wheel size than our dodges] theres going to eventually be another class of tow ratings. but as of now we'll just have to live and learn.

 

[Ladders]

See my comment about NM lisc in the other form about CDL's. I only used the printed info on the back of my lisc, as this is what a officer in another state would see and have to go by.

So, who needs to use NM for their home base??? (barring Fed DOT rules "destroying" what I posted - keep in mind we are dealing with NON-Commerical use)

SOTSU!!
\\BF//

 

[Eric_77]

It is actually fairly simple you can pull any weight trailer up until you hit 26,001 lbs gross for BOTH truck and trailer.

This bit from tagalong is wrong class A and B are reversed I don't know how or where it happened. But A is all vehicles B is over 26,001 truck/trailer with less than 10,000 lb trailer.

A. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 pounds.
B. A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross comgination weight rating is more than 26,000
pounds.


As far as what regs apply to who. There are weight and there are paper work requirements.

Weight, safety, and license checks are at 26,001 lbs federally, local may be less regardless of for hire private or RV.

some paper work reg apply to anyone over 10,001 lbs gross truck/trailer if for a business. The paper work reg at this level are fairly easy nothing over 10 hrs driving 8hrs off. Not sure about drug tests and alcohol in vehicle.

At 26,001 lbs for business weight requirements come into effect, no alcohol in vehicle, drug and alcohol tests, a medical certificate (physical).

Hope this helps. Gov't says a business use is anything that is done to further commerce be it a delivery, a service performed out of truck, or transport of own product to do some thing that could generate income. Example used by them was a race team pulling flatbed 7. 5k trailer with a dually would hit paper regs but would not have license or weight checks. They said if the the race pays any purse it is a business even if you do not win or purse does not cover cost.

[This message has been edited by Eric_77 (edited 02-23-2001). ]

 

[Powder Extreme]

I'll add my 2 cents worth. Last week I hauled some columns for a canopy at my own truck stop. I was pulled over in Iowa by the highway patrol. He read me the riot act!! Wrote me up for 10 violations. Not running a log book (which he then put me out of service for 8 hours). Not having a current annual inspection on my gooseneck. 2 of the 3 ICC lights in the center were burnt out. Having tinted windows on my pickup. Not having a current medical card (I do have a CDL). Not carrying a fire extinguisher and warning triangles. Trailer plates that were expired 1 day (I had the new plate with me, just not on) Not displaying current DOT numbers on my pickup. I can't remember what else. He also said he "could" put me out of service for the cracked windshield that just happened on their **** gravelled interstates. He informed me that because I weighed over 10,001 lbs (16,920) and was transporting items that were used in a business, I was a commercial vehicle and needed to abide by all laws. He even told me that if I was travelling with my camper and decided that nice new computer would work great at my truck stop, I would become a commercial vehicle while hauling the computer home. How **** ridiculous is that??!!
Then he allowed my girlfriend who has no CDL, (said you didn't need one till 26k) had no log book, and had no current medical card to drive my truck to the next truck stop where I would obtain log books. Her first dose of pulling a trailer was in I-80 rush hour traffic with a cop on her butt #ad
did pretty well.

Hope this small novel helps shed some light. Basically it depends on the mood of the cop. But technically you do need to be DOT registered and run a log book etc. but you do not need a CDL till 26k

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2001 Quad Cab Dually, ETH, SLT Plus, 275 injectors, Banks Power Pack.

 

[CWade]

Remind me to stay out of Iowa. You are very right about the mood of the police officer making the differance in how the laws are enforced.

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2001. 5 3500 Quad Cab 4X2
HO, 6 spd, 3. 55AS, Jacob's brake, patriot blue, 22K Reese 5th wheel,Reese digital brake controller, Isspro pyro & boost gauges, Snap-On tool box

 

[Steve M]

What is required to obtain a CDL license? Our son is looking into driving for one of the medium duty delivery companies and would need a CDL license. Is it a written test only or does it also require a driving test? He has driven trucks in the military but hasn't been required to have a CDL.

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98 2500 CC SB 4X2 12v 5spd 4. 10, -silencer, AFC+20, Edelbrock IAS, VDO gauges, Reese 15k Classic
97 Dodge Stratus 150HP
92 Harley Fatboy, Dynojet fuel management, Supertrapp 2-1
00 Jayco 25' 5th wheel, single slide

 

[zzman]

Packman,
I think your question is when do you need a CDL when using your own vehicle.

We all know if you are hauling for hire is one.
If you use your vehicle to haul your equiptment to a job,
is this also a requirement for a CDL.
My father-in-law did this for many years with his stucco company.
He had to have a commercial liecence for this.
Also my uncle has his own dozer he moves around from place
to place, says he will get a ticket if he gets caught without
his CDL.
I think the differance of a reg. liecence and a CDL is going
to be the type of driving you are doing and not the equiptment
you are driving. The type of equiptment you are driving will
be the differance in the type of CDL required.

So, if you drive your own vehicle, to haul your own equiptment
to a job, you are then performing a commercial act requiring
a commercial liecence.

When driving your own vehicle hauling your own equiptment, you are
required to stop at weight stations to weight and check papers,
commercial insurance, regestration, liecence and etc. But you are
not required to keep logs.
This is all from experiance from relatives.

Also, a vehicle is classified as any vehicle that travels on the
pavement either on its own or pulled.
In short, if a liecence plate is required,
it is a vehicle.
Ron

 

[rickhans]

ZZMAN, I think there might be a misunderstanding here. According to the trooper I talked to at Texas DPS, license & weight division, the only requirements to have a CDL in Texas when using a pickup is:
1. If total combined weight exceeds 26000 lbs.
and/or
2. If you are driving for hire

I currently tow a 25' triple axle enclosed car hauler loaded with tools and equipment to my job sites and do not need a CDL.

I have had to show my license one time while towing the trailer after I got rear-ended but there was no question raised at all about my class C non-cdl license.

If you worked for an employer, and was paid to use your truck to tow his trailer around, technically you might have to have a CDL. However, I doubt that you would ever be checked. I have towed many a trailer around Texas, sometimes empty, sometimes with a car on it to take it to one of our kids with a broken down car at school, as well as having painting and other construction equipment on them (and visable) and have never been asked for a CDL.

 

[zzman]

Rick,
I think you are correct with the issue of hauling your own things on a trailer for yourself. But when you haul your own things for the purpose of a business, are you not doing this as a part of a job? Is this not another form of hauling for hire?
I don't mean to sound like I know all the laws, but I guess the interputation of "for hire" may be the issue with me.
With the experiance from my father-in-law this would fall in this catagory to me.
I use to have my own backhoe business and hauled it around. But I already had a CDL and never even thought about that.
Rick you seem to be hauling in that same manner, I am really curious to know what the law states on this issue. The example my father-in-law gave me, when he went to New Orleans to do a job, they stopped at the weigh station and was asked for the mentioned documents. I remember when I had the backhoe business that I did have to get commercial insurance. This may be where I am getting so hard headed about this issue. I guess if I needed commercial insurance that I figured I needed a commercial liecence too.
Well good luck, I think I spent my . 02 long time ago.
Thanks, Ron

 

[Eric_77]

Okay there are two issues one is license one is record keeping. The license is 26,001 the paperwork insurance and such is 10,001 lbs for interstate (Texas nad some other states set it higher for intra-state. Tx 26,001)

The major word is commerce is the travleing for a business purpose like the delivering of the computer that makes it business. The hauling of cars if you are taking it to your daughter not business and if under 26,001 then no CDL requirements either.

The CDL is based on weight only.

The ICC now Federal Motor Carrier Safety Commission rules regarding hours of operation, inspections, insurance, medical records etc are by weight and type of driving. To fall under this you must be both in commerce (for a business purpose) AND be over 10,001, These are just interstate rules intra state can and in most agricultural states does differ.