CDL Needed? 17,000 pound tri axle

[aerialimage]

Ive been reading posts for a couple hours now and am still unsure because of conflicting posts.

Looking at a new to us 5er, it's bigger than we were looking for but it is something we thought we would work our way up to. The market seems in our favor to skip the smaller ones and start out where we thought we would end up anyways.

we have a 99 4x4 QC DRW 3500 with auto.

The trailer we are looking at is 17,000 pounds Gross. Wondering if we need a cdl to tow this? No point in buying it if we can't haul it and enjoy it!

Thanks for any input.

 

[Wertles]

You do not need a CDL to haul for private use. I have an 18K tri axle, no CDL, and I'm 100% legal everywhere. Post a pic when you get it!

 

[Powder Extreme]

Some states require a special license to tow heavy trailers for personal use. As far as an actual CDL (Commercial Driver's License) you don't need one because nothing you are doing is commercial.

Since you didn't say which state you live in, I can't tell you whether or not a special provision on your regular license is necessary.

Your best bet would be to talk to a Highway Patrol officer and also call one of the local interstate truck scales and talk to the scale master.

 

[aerialimage]

Will be towing along East Coast and to Western PA

I would hope if I am legal to tow here I would be fine most places Thinking that these rules are based on DOT regs accepted across the US.

Of coarse I am also wondering how the old 99 DRW QC and Auto are going to like this Beast! Seems like where we want to end up but If we are going to Have any trouble staying legal or be at the extreme end of the trucks ability That may take all the enjoyment out of it!

 

[Powder Extreme]

The only weak link in the combination is your automatic transmission. Older Dodge automatics weren't the best. But for not too much money you can replace the torque converter and do a few minor upgrades and you'll have a pretty solid transmission.

Naturally the Cummins will be happy it can finally flex it's muscles.

 

[CUMMINZ]

It does not matter how much weight you are towing if the trailer GWV exceeds 10,000#s you need a class A regular drivers license in NC. 10k is the key. Now for the heavy loads that is another matter.

 

[aerialimage]

It does not matter how much weight you are towing if the trailer GWV exceeds 10,000#s you need a class A regular drivers license in NC. 10k is the key. Now for the heavy loads that is another matter.

Are you positive that applies to Rv trailers too?

I just hung up with state police dot division and they said it's the camper plate that gets me out of any cdl or special lic

My truck says 11,000 gross and trailer gross is 17,000 so combined gross would be 28,000! They said I would have a problem if my truck had commercial tags but then they reversed that because my truck is a drw so must be commercial registered anyways! They tell me I'm good to go?

Hope each state does not enforce different rules?

 

[HBarlow]

Are you positive that applies to Rv trailers too?
I just hung up with state police dot division and they said it's the camper plate that gets me out of any cdl or special lic
My truck says 11,000 gross and trailer gross is 17,000 so combined gross would be 28,000! They said I would have a problem if my truck had commercial tags but then they reversed that because my truck is a drw so must be commercial registered anyways! They tell me I'm good to go?
Hope each state does not enforce different rules?

Cumminz is talking about his state of NC. If you don't live there and your vehicles are not registered there it is irrelevant to you.

In Texas you would be required to have a Class A Operator's License which requires the same testing as a CDL A but is not a commercial license. Again, if you don't live in Texas, that requirement is not applicable to you.

If you have the required registration and driver's license in your home state you will be legal in all other states.

Depending on the laws of your state, be sure to register and pay weight fees on the max GVWR of your truck and your trailer.

A 17,000 lb. trailer will make your Dodge with 47RE a real dog. You won't enjoy towing it. For about $6500 you can be the proud owner of a full DTT or other built automatic.

 

[Mark31]

Aerial, you are talking 'bout a LOAD! With the snowplow in your sig, I think (hope) maybe you have 4. 10 gears. You will need lockouts for your front axle so you can ease around parking that rig. Big rear end cover, deep pan on a built trans like Uncle Harvey says, air bags, Maxbrake, exhaust brake, etc. You are thinking about biting off a lot. The experience you will gain by going with a smaller rig first could possibly be more valuable than the loot you will lose trading. I wish you well. Mark

 

[BSeyler]

Aerial, you are talking 'bout a LOAD! With the snowplow in your sig, I think (hope) maybe you have 4. 10 gears. You will need lockouts for your front axle so you can ease around parking that rig. Big rear end cover, deep pan on a built trans like Uncle Harvey says, air bags, Maxbrake, exhaust brake, etc. You are thinking about biting off a lot. The experience you will gain by going with a smaller rig first could possibly be more valuable than the loot you will lose trading. I wish you well. Mark

Harvey sure seems to have a lot of nephews...

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey sure seems to have a lot of nephews...

Calling me "uncle Harvey" is more polite than saying "that old guy. "

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Don't sweat it!!

Pretty much... As long as the combined weight doesn't exceed 26,001 pounds OR have any placards, you should be fine in most states... Most or (all states and provinces) will require a CDL only IF you are towing or hauling for a profit.



Some states, however, will require you to be registered for the combined GVWR and some do not. UT, for instance, automatically registers everything from the worn out early '80's model Chevy Luv, Ranger, Mazda, Nissan, etc... all the way to an '11 Ram 5500 for 12,000 pounds (personal vehicle NOT for hire)! You can register ANY truck up to 26,000 pounds (in UT at least) if you really 'think' that you need to.



WY, on the other hand, only allows up to 10,000 on a truck or passenger plate and ANYTHING beyond that will require you to get a 'commercial' or 'apportioned' plate. (I asked)



My '92 W-350 is technically "overweight" in this state by a few pounds by simply having a truck plate (keeping the GVWR for an empty truck in mind). That said, ANY fine assessed for personal use by exceeding the combined weight or requirement to have ANY class of license (above John Q public driving a Mercedes) by hooking up to a 5er or TT for the weekend, would be thrown out of court before the judge even seen it!!



Both the CDL manuals for WY and UT clearly state that you are exempted from the CDL requirement for: recreational, farm equipment, fire/rescue equipment, and military. My EX-wife has driven a fire engine (for almost a decade) that's rated around 55,000 pounds and has never been required to have, nor ever been asked to obtain a CDL



BTW... My EX-mother-in-law works at a UT port as well as my EX-brother-in-law (I always ask either one or both of them exactly what they're looking for)



Next time you end up in a truck stop, just ask the guy in the 40' Monaco or the guy driving a Prevost bus (both have air-brakes) if they even have an endorsement on their driver's license for air-brakes... And more importantly, if they've ever been stopped, fined, or harassed by local or state police for NOT having a CDL.

 

[aerialimage]

Thanks for all the answers and help!

Nothing like hearing from people that have lived it!



So it sounds like my truck can both legally and capably tow this monster, although my trans will likely pop or show it's weakness.



If I go big I will initially need to use locally until next June. I have some motivating factors here like kids just have 1 month left of summer break. I may never own as nice a unit if I pass on this one.

I have a second smaller unit I like but that one will need the axles swapped under springs before I can use it as my trucks bed rails are 57" and the smaller 5th measures 54" under the front. I figure I need 6" over the bed rails above and beyond my bed sides. This shopping for a 5er is not easy to do fast and with so many choices in this poor economy!

I think my truck will work around here on the flatland but would expect to do the trans before taking a big trailer hill climbing around Nh and PA

 

[aerialimage]

Anyone know how a 2002 Crossroads 5er was?
I think the frame is built by Lippert And I have read those are bad but I have also read the Crossroads are rated a 4 and a good solid camper with Aluminum frame.
Thanks

 

[HBarlow]

Pretty much... As long as the combined weight doesn't exceed 26,001 pounds OR have any placards, you should be fine in most states... Most or (all states and provinces) will require a CDL only IF you are towing or hauling for a profit. .

His gross combined weight or rated weight will exceed 26,000 lbs. and in a number of states that requires an upgraded driver's license. NO state should require a CDL for private RV towing and cannot require someone registered and licensed in another state to have a CDL for private RV towing but will require a CDL A if you are engaged in any commercial activity. It does not have to be hauling for profit but engaged in any commercial activity such as a landscaper, painter, plumber, etc.

Some states, however, will require you to be registered for the combined GVWR and some do not. UT, for instance, automatically registers everything from the worn out early '80's model Chevy Luv, Ranger, Mazda, Nissan, etc... all the way to an '11 Ram 5500 for 12,000 pounds (personal vehicle NOT for hire)! You can register ANY truck up to 26,000 pounds (in UT at least) if you really 'think' that you need to. .

WY, on the other hand, only allows up to 10,000 on a truck or passenger plate and ANYTHING beyond that will require you to get a 'commercial' or 'apportioned' plate. (I asked).

My '92 W-350 is technically "overweight" in this state by a few pounds by simply having a truck plate (keeping the GVWR for an empty truck in mind). That said, ANY fine assessed for personal use by exceeding the combined weight or requirement to have ANY class of license (above John Q public driving a Mercedes) by hooking up to a 5er or TT for the weekend, would be thrown out of court before the judge even seen it!!. [/QUOTE]

That statement is false and incorrect and might cause someone to get a ticket. The driver is required to register his tow and towed vehicles for their weight and in many states is required to have an upgraded license for heavy private RV towing. TX requires a Class A Operator License. Many other states have a similar requirement.

TDR member "Cumminz" reported a two or three years ago that he was fined and paid a large ticket for being caught pulling a heavy private trailer. Don't remember thed details but maybe he will discuss it here.

Both the CDL manuals for WY and UT clearly state that you are exempted from the CDL requirement for: recreational, farm equipment, fire/rescue equipment, and military. My EX-wife has driven a fire engine (for almost a decade) that's rated around 55,000 pounds and has never been required to have, nor ever been asked to obtain a CDL .

BTW... My EX-mother-in-law works at a UT port as well as my EX-brother-in-law (I always ask either one or both of them exactly what they're looking for).

Next time you end up in a truck stop, just ask the guy in the 40' Monaco or the guy driving a Prevost bus (both have air-brakes) if they even have an endorsement on their driver's license for air-brakes... And more importantly, if they've ever been stopped, fined, or harassed by local or state police for NOT having a CDL.

In Texas and many other states the motorhome owner in your example IS required to have a Class B Operator license which requires taking the same testing that a CDL B driver must take and must also obtain the air brake endorsement. The only difference is Operator vs. Commercial.

 

[aerialimage]

Thanks for all your help!
I think I have read that you have towed many a trailer so I am also wondering if you have any knowledge on the 2002 Crossroads campers? That's what I'm looking at and I have read something about them having a good rating but wonder if they were good back in 02 also? Thanks for any knowledge! And thanks to everybody for taking the time to help!

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks for all the answers and help!
Nothing like hearing from people that have lived it!

So it sounds like my truck can both legally and capably tow this monster, although my trans will likely pop or show it's weakness.

If I go big I will initially need to use locally until next June. I have some motivating factors here like kids just have 1 month left of summer break. I may never own as nice a unit if I pass on this one.
I have a second smaller unit I like but that one will need the axles swapped under springs before I can use it as my trucks bed rails are 57" and the smaller 5th measures 54" under the front. I figure I need 6" over the bed rails above and beyond my bed sides. This shopping for a 5er is not easy to do fast and with so many choices in this poor economy!
I think my truck will work around here on the flatland but would expect to do the trans before taking a big trailer hill climbing around Nh and PA

Your truck can be registered to tow that trailer legally as long as you don't exceed axle or tire capacities but it WILL NOT tow it capably. Your truck almost certainly has a 3. 54 differential. Coupled with an old loose 47RE it will struggle its guts out to get the load rolling and will be a very poor performer.

Your truck was probably rated by Dodge for a Gross Combined Weight of about 16,000 lbs with 3. 54 gears and a 47RE. You are talking about towing a trailer with a loaded weight exceeding your GCWR not even counting the weight of the truck which is about 9,000 lbs. Your gross combined weight with that trailer will be about 25,000 to 26,000 lbs.

My '08 Cab and Chassis with 305hp and 610 ft. lbs. torque, Aisin six speed automatic, and 4. 10 gears is rated at a GCWR of 24,000. My fifthwheel weighs 14,000 lbs. loaded for travel. This means my gross combined weight is around 25,000. The truck does a good job but I would not want to tow a heavier trailer.

 

[aerialimage]

Yikes!

I'm getting cold feet here on this Big trailer. The deal is unbeatable and making it hard to walk away from, but It's getting easier to let it slip away as the cold hard facts keep getting in the way!

Might have to pass on this heavy unit and try to forget all about it.

My truck does have the 4. 10 gears with a Dana 80

I personally have never pulled anything heavy with it but It pushes Real Heavy snow like a walk in the park. Is this scenario any better with the 4. 10 ratios?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[HBarlow]

Aerial,

I'm not intentionally giving you a hard time, just bluntly pointing out some facts you will prefer to know now rather than after you've laid out your hard earned cash or signed that forever loan repayment agreement. I commend you for taking it as helpful advice rather than reacting defensively and emotionally as some do.

There is really no such thing as an unbeatable deal. A huge and heavy trailer like that is not really a bargain even if the seller decides to give it to you for nothing. Huge heavy travel trailers are probably not selling very well right now in this economic disaster with very high fuel prices we are living in. Even if the trailer is free you'll be forced to spend $40k to $50 for a new truck capable of pulling it comfortably.

Take a deep breath and reevaluate your real needs.

Replacing both ring and pinion sets will be pretty expensive, could cost you $1500 to $2000 depending on mechanics in your area. Changing over to 4. 10 gears would be an improvement but then you'd need a $6000 full conversion rebuild of your old soft 47RE and an exhaust brake for stopping that monster. Perhaps new brakes and tires as well. I don't think you've mentioned how many miles your current truck has on the odometer or what kind of shape it is in but you would be spending a lot of money on an old possibly tired truck you plan to replace before long anyway.

My best and most sincere advice would be to back out of this and sit down for a long talk with your wife and family about what you want and need. Yours is a common dilemma. You have a truck that is capable of towing that trailer with an engine capable of towing two of them but the limitations of the complete platform will make
you hate the trailer and regret your decision.

If its camping weekends and an annual vacation with your family you're looking for you would be much happier with a much smaller and lighter trailer. A 17k fifthwheel is a full-timer's unit. Full-timers usually live in a location for several months and move only with the seasons. They often use a retired OTR tractor, a MDT, or a better equipped dually as a tow vehicle.

I promise you, you will be much happier with a clean but older used smaller unit with a max GVWR of 10k to a maximum of 12k pounds.

I personally would not tow a heavy trailer with any truck without an exhaust brake. A diesel engine provides very little natural engine braking when you lift your right foot. Making it worse, the 47RE unlocks and freewheels when you lift your foot leaving only the service brakes and trailer brakes to stop the heavy combined weight. You can't use an exhaust brake without at least some modification of the 47RE to lock the torque converter while the brake is activated.

My truck is an '08 Ram 3500 cab and chassis. I would not tow a 17,000 lb. fifthwheel for pleasure with it. Yes, it would tow it but would not be fun and enjoyable.

Most of us have started with smaller and lighter trailers. That would be my advice.

 

[Wertles]

The 4. 10 will definitely help. As above, your transmission is your weak link but if you are planning on keeping your truck for any length of time is a worth while upgrade. If you plow professionally it is most likely a tax deduction for you. If this is the trailer you absolutely love at an unbeatable price, get it. You don't have to please anyone on this forum other than yourself and your family. There is alot of good advice and guidance to be taken from others with experience. I got a lot of poo for buying a very heavy trailer of lesser quality and pulling it with a SRW truck. I got 19. 5 tires, air bags, a Max Brake and upgraded my transmission (all great suggestions from this site, not the camper dealer), and now I pull the trailer more comfortable than I did with my previous smaller camper.