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Cdl
- Thread starter befrazier
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Why a CDL? C = commercial, and there's nothing commercial if I'm pulling an RV for personal use.
As a matter of fact, Texas already has "big rig" license requirements that have nothing to do with CDL. A non-commercial Class A license is required for GCWR >= 26,001 lbs and trailer GVWR > 10,000 lbs (ref. Texas Transportation Code, Section 521. 081). A non-commercial Class B license is required for GCWR >= 26,001 lbs and trailer GVWR <= 10,000 lbs or no trailer (i. e. , the bigger Class A motorhomes - ref. Texas Tranportation Code, Section 521. 082). If GCWR is 26,000 lbs or less, a standard non-commercial Class C license will suffice (ref. Texas Transportation Code, Section 521. 083).
Rusty
As a matter of fact, Texas already has "big rig" license requirements that have nothing to do with CDL. A non-commercial Class A license is required for GCWR >= 26,001 lbs and trailer GVWR > 10,000 lbs (ref. Texas Transportation Code, Section 521. 081). A non-commercial Class B license is required for GCWR >= 26,001 lbs and trailer GVWR <= 10,000 lbs or no trailer (i. e. , the bigger Class A motorhomes - ref. Texas Tranportation Code, Section 521. 082). If GCWR is 26,000 lbs or less, a standard non-commercial Class C license will suffice (ref. Texas Transportation Code, Section 521. 083).
Rusty
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Rusty,
I recently did a lot of research into this. I was told by DPS, and the reading seems to confirm, that if my gross capacity is over 26,000, and I want to use my class C license, I cannot go beyond 150 miles from the ranch. If I do, I need a class A CDL. Even though it is not for any commercial purpose. My truck has a gvr of 11,500. If my trailer is rated above 14,500, I need to stay within 150 miles from home, or get a CDL.
Larry
I recently did a lot of research into this. I was told by DPS, and the reading seems to confirm, that if my gross capacity is over 26,000, and I want to use my class C license, I cannot go beyond 150 miles from the ranch. If I do, I need a class A CDL. Even though it is not for any commercial purpose. My truck has a gvr of 11,500. If my trailer is rated above 14,500, I need to stay within 150 miles from home, or get a CDL.
Larry
If you're using your truck for commercial activity that's not otherwise exempted by the law, then you'll need a CDL. That's not the case I was addressing in my post. There are 2 completely different sections in the Texas Transportation Code - one that deals with CDLs (Title 7, Subtitle B, Chapter 522) and one that deals with non-commercial licenses (Title 7, Subtitle B, Chapter 521).
Go by the law, not what one individual at the DPS tells you. As many of us who pull RVs have found out, if you talk to 10 different DPS employees, you'll get 10 different answers. In fact, it's bad enough that I carry a printout of the applicable sections of the Texas Transportation Code in my truck in case I should have a roadside conversation with the Texas DPS. HERE is the online site - click on Texas Statutes, then Transportation Code.
For example, the following definitions are straight from the Texas Transportation Code, Section 522. 003 and apply to Chapters 521 and 522 - emphasis mine:
The GCWR of my truck, as specified by Dodge, is 26,000 lbs (under the 26,001 lb threshold) - therefore, only a non-commercial class C driver license is required when I'm pulling the 5th wheel. This 26,000 lb GCWR is straight from Dodge's bodybuilder's guide dated 10/5/10 located HERE. And, yes, I carry a printout of the applicable page in the truck showing that 26,000 lbs is the value specified by the manufacturer.
Note that the 26,000 lb GCWR is higher than the 24,500 lb GCWR quoted in a recent issue of the TDR by a Dodge engineer. I guess Dodge had to increase it to compete with Ford and GM. The SRW version of this truck shows a GCWR of 24,000 lbs, and the 3. 73 axle with the 68RFE transmission is still listed at 21,000 lbs.
Rusty
Go by the law, not what one individual at the DPS tells you. As many of us who pull RVs have found out, if you talk to 10 different DPS employees, you'll get 10 different answers. In fact, it's bad enough that I carry a printout of the applicable sections of the Texas Transportation Code in my truck in case I should have a roadside conversation with the Texas DPS. HERE is the online site - click on Texas Statutes, then Transportation Code.
For example, the following definitions are straight from the Texas Transportation Code, Section 522. 003 and apply to Chapters 521 and 522 - emphasis mine:
The GCWR of my truck, as specified by Dodge, is 26,000 lbs (under the 26,001 lb threshold) - therefore, only a non-commercial class C driver license is required when I'm pulling the 5th wheel. This 26,000 lb GCWR is straight from Dodge's bodybuilder's guide dated 10/5/10 located HERE. And, yes, I carry a printout of the applicable page in the truck showing that 26,000 lbs is the value specified by the manufacturer.
Note that the 26,000 lb GCWR is higher than the 24,500 lb GCWR quoted in a recent issue of the TDR by a Dodge engineer. I guess Dodge had to increase it to compete with Ford and GM. The SRW version of this truck shows a GCWR of 24,000 lbs, and the 3. 73 axle with the 68RFE transmission is still listed at 21,000 lbs.
Rusty
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Rusty
I'm not disagreeing with you at all but the point should be made that it seems people need to look into the state they reside and follow their requirements which are "supposed" to be reciprocally acknowledged in other states you traveling through. I think I heard that New Jersey is not and there maybe others, I could be wrong about New Jersey, bummer.
I know California has a RV Class A license that is non-commercial but here in Arizona there is not that option they only have Commercial Class A. I know here there are a lot of MH's I'm sure I should not say that I think exceed 26,001 lbs and are being driven with Class C licenses. Not my situation so have not looked into if it is legal or not here.
Next year I plan on purchasing and modifying a class 8 HDT for towing. In Arizona I will have to have a Class A CDL it is just the law here. In California could have RV Class A more than likely and in some states might even be able to only have a Class C. Oh my 5er weighs over 10,001 lbs as well.
Some states will allow you to register the class 8 HDT as a MH if you but in a refrigerator, microwave, etc. what ever that states specifies and it can be registered as a MH. Arizona they don't care what you do to that HDT it will be registered as a commercial vehicle.
This was a long way of saying check with you place of residence to determine license requirements. Yes when you travel you might have to take copies of that states code to show LEO's if stopped.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all but the point should be made that it seems people need to look into the state they reside and follow their requirements which are "supposed" to be reciprocally acknowledged in other states you traveling through. I think I heard that New Jersey is not and there maybe others, I could be wrong about New Jersey, bummer.
I know California has a RV Class A license that is non-commercial but here in Arizona there is not that option they only have Commercial Class A. I know here there are a lot of MH's I'm sure I should not say that I think exceed 26,001 lbs and are being driven with Class C licenses. Not my situation so have not looked into if it is legal or not here.
Next year I plan on purchasing and modifying a class 8 HDT for towing. In Arizona I will have to have a Class A CDL it is just the law here. In California could have RV Class A more than likely and in some states might even be able to only have a Class C. Oh my 5er weighs over 10,001 lbs as well.
Some states will allow you to register the class 8 HDT as a MH if you but in a refrigerator, microwave, etc. what ever that states specifies and it can be registered as a MH. Arizona they don't care what you do to that HDT it will be registered as a commercial vehicle.
This was a long way of saying check with you place of residence to determine license requirements. Yes when you travel you might have to take copies of that states code to show LEO's if stopped.
I agree completely, Bob. My comments apply only to Texas residents, which I had assumed that Larry (Rockranch) was from his comment regarding the DPS.
Rusty
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This topic is a hot one that has been debated many times before here on TDR. From a safety standpoint, I believe training for the vehicle you are driving should be required. Medical Cards are already required in CA for Fifth Wheel Drivers. I fear that the requirement for a license would be used merely as a revenue generator as the Calif. Diesel Smog checks have been. I drove Transit School Busses when I was going to college. I've had a class B license with air brakes and passenger endorsements for 21 years.
With my current Fifth wheel, I decided I wanted to pull a trailer behind it. My only option here in Calif. was to upgrade to commerical Class A with a Doubles and Triples endorsement. The Doubles and Triples endorsement is only offered here in a CDL. BTW Calif. doesn't even allow Triples, but that's what it's called. Also I did not want a full on Truck Driver's license or the expense that would go along with the training for that. So I found that I could get the CDL A upgrade with a 26000 lb restriction, Doubles and Triples and I'm legal with my Truck, 5vr and utility trailer.
The other downside to a CDL is that here in CA, you don't have the option for Traffic School for any traffic violations instead of it going on your driving record. So if a CDL becomes a requirement for RVs, all of the RV drivers would get points on their records if they get a ticket.
With my current Fifth wheel, I decided I wanted to pull a trailer behind it. My only option here in Calif. was to upgrade to commerical Class A with a Doubles and Triples endorsement. The Doubles and Triples endorsement is only offered here in a CDL. BTW Calif. doesn't even allow Triples, but that's what it's called. Also I did not want a full on Truck Driver's license or the expense that would go along with the training for that. So I found that I could get the CDL A upgrade with a 26000 lb restriction, Doubles and Triples and I'm legal with my Truck, 5vr and utility trailer.
The other downside to a CDL is that here in CA, you don't have the option for Traffic School for any traffic violations instead of it going on your driving record. So if a CDL becomes a requirement for RVs, all of the RV drivers would get points on their records if they get a ticket.
Another little known factor in addition to the traffic school option, it that the fines for offenses are much steeper if you have a CDL than if you had a regular license. I finally gave mine up last year for just that reason, since it was only a status symbol, I had not actually used it for a couple decades. .
Rusty's post above is accurate. TX does not requre a CDL for private use, regardless of vehicle weight or configuration.
I obtained a CDL Class A license when I was transporting trailers but recently voluntarily converted the Class A CDL to a Class A operator license because I know I won't haul commercially again and because CDL drivers can and often are held to a higher standard, will often receive higher fines if ticketed, and cannot have tickets forgiven by attending traffic school as surfbeetle and DonTX wrote above.
Several other states in addition to my home state of TX now require a Class A operator license for private use large and heavy trailers and a Class B operator license for motorhomes.
I obtained a CDL Class A license when I was transporting trailers but recently voluntarily converted the Class A CDL to a Class A operator license because I know I won't haul commercially again and because CDL drivers can and often are held to a higher standard, will often receive higher fines if ticketed, and cannot have tickets forgiven by attending traffic school as surfbeetle and DonTX wrote above.
Several other states in addition to my home state of TX now require a Class A operator license for private use large and heavy trailers and a Class B operator license for motorhomes.
Rusty - Yep trying to speak to a larger audience.
For CDL fines/points are double and no school allowed. For DWI . 04 BAC instead of . 08. BAC. License renew every 5 years and physical every 2 years. Just to name a few but these things come along with being a professional driver!!
I drove a guy MH in an RV park and I got to tell you they are not that easy in confined spaces. This thing actual could retract the rear axle to keep from scrub when making tight turns to help some in maneuvering.
I got to agree some form of training IMHO is necessary with air brake endorsement. I am sure that will ruffle some feathers but notice I did not say CDL.
For CDL fines/points are double and no school allowed. For DWI . 04 BAC instead of . 08. BAC. License renew every 5 years and physical every 2 years. Just to name a few but these things come along with being a professional driver!!
I drove a guy MH in an RV park and I got to tell you they are not that easy in confined spaces. This thing actual could retract the rear axle to keep from scrub when making tight turns to help some in maneuvering.
I got to agree some form of training IMHO is necessary with air brake endorsement. I am sure that will ruffle some feathers but notice I did not say CDL.
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Also, many believe the higher fines are only for when you have an offense in a big rig. Not so, they apply the same if you are on the road heavy commercial, or going to the grocery store in a borrowed Honda Fit. We are simply held to a higher standard than other drivers. The speed trap cops really love us!
GAmes
TDR MEMBER
That is not just CA, as far as I know it is U. S. wide. That is one of the reasons I have never wanted a CDL. (Plus I don't have to tear my truck up pulling heavier trailers:-laf). Not having a CDL actually saved me a traffic fine in Houston a couple years ago. I was caught not having my log book current. When I went to court I was asked if I had a CDL. I said no, I was driving a pickup and didn't need one. Logbook violation dismissed. Oo.
I live in Minnesota and was told by Commercial DOT that the operator is responsible for knowing the law in the state you are towing in. I have a Class A CDL but am considered a none Commercial Racer because I do not claim it as a business. Which means I get no tax breaks or do not claim winnings for personal business. Sounds like every state is different. Minnesota has a max trailer weight of 9,999 lbs or less or you go to a Class A CDL. Doesn't matter if it is RV or any trailer.
Rusty,
Thanks for the links. I realize, now, that I was off track, as far as the context of your reply. You were speaking about recreational vehicles. So, let me set this up and ask a question and then I will let you and HBarlow and any other Texans fill me in.
About a 1 1/2 years ago I purchased about 50 acres in Brown county. As you know, if you are involved in agriculture, there is an Ag exemption for your property taxes. I run a few head of cattle, just enough to qualify, and call it a ranch. Most would say a ranchette. When getting my TX DL, I inquired about different license categories. The lady at the DMV said I could get by with the C, unless I was going to have a gross weight above 26,000. Then I would need a class A. I did some research, both in the drivers book and online. I spoke to several people. The consensus seemed to be that if I wanted to go more than 150 miles from home, pulling a trailer that put me over 26,000, I would need a CDL. If I went to, say, San Antonio, to pick up a piece of equipment for the farm, I would be over 150 miles. If my trailer was rated for more that 14,500, I would need a CDL. If I were hauling livestock more than 150 miles, I would need a CDL. I reviewed the links you posted and they seem to support what I was told.
You mention the weight specified by the manufacturer. What if the trailer is speced for 20,000? Combined with the GVW for the truck(11,500), that puts us over 26,000 and over that speced by the manufacturer for GCWR, which is around 21,000 for my truck.
I do not own a recreational trailer. I am not trying to talk myself into a CDL, but I don't want to get caught without one and face big fines, or have to leave my load someplace and find someone to come get it. Any help, or advice, would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Larry
Thanks for the links. I realize, now, that I was off track, as far as the context of your reply. You were speaking about recreational vehicles. So, let me set this up and ask a question and then I will let you and HBarlow and any other Texans fill me in.
About a 1 1/2 years ago I purchased about 50 acres in Brown county. As you know, if you are involved in agriculture, there is an Ag exemption for your property taxes. I run a few head of cattle, just enough to qualify, and call it a ranch. Most would say a ranchette. When getting my TX DL, I inquired about different license categories. The lady at the DMV said I could get by with the C, unless I was going to have a gross weight above 26,000. Then I would need a class A. I did some research, both in the drivers book and online. I spoke to several people. The consensus seemed to be that if I wanted to go more than 150 miles from home, pulling a trailer that put me over 26,000, I would need a CDL. If I went to, say, San Antonio, to pick up a piece of equipment for the farm, I would be over 150 miles. If my trailer was rated for more that 14,500, I would need a CDL. If I were hauling livestock more than 150 miles, I would need a CDL. I reviewed the links you posted and they seem to support what I was told.
You mention the weight specified by the manufacturer. What if the trailer is speced for 20,000? Combined with the GVW for the truck(11,500), that puts us over 26,000 and over that speced by the manufacturer for GCWR, which is around 21,000 for my truck.
I do not own a recreational trailer. I am not trying to talk myself into a CDL, but I don't want to get caught without one and face big fines, or have to leave my load someplace and find someone to come get it. Any help, or advice, would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Larry
Ken,
Your info is confused or confusing for others. Your statement is only true for you because you are engaged in commercial activity with your trailer. If it was an RV or boat trailer used for personal use, only an operator license is required.
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Larry,
You have accumulated all the right information but you are getting confused and sidetracked by the agricultural exemption which the clerk in your county clerk's office or DMV driver's license office probably didn't explain clearly.
An ordinary private citizen not engaged in commercial activity can pull a trailer weighing 10k or more as long as the combination actual or rated weight does not exceed 26k.
If the same private citizen not engaged in commercial activity pulls a trailer weighing in excess of 10k and his rated (total of GVWRs) or actual weight exceeds 26k he needs a Class A operator license.
In your case, because you own and operate a ranch (however small) and haul livestock, farm feed, etc. you are granted a special agricultural exemption under long standing TX law. The exemption from obtaining a CDL is applicable as long as you remain within a 150 mile radius of your ranch.
Your ranch hauling is commercial in nature and ordinary citizens would require a CDL to engage in commercial activity. Since you indicate your travels may require travel outside the 150 mile radius you should consider obtaining a CDL Class A. IMO, TX DPS is pretty lenient on farmers and ranchers so you might get away with operating indefinitely without a CDL.
The manufacturer's stated combined weight limits and towing limits are of no interest whatsoever to a DPS officer. They have no idea what that number is and consider it irrelevant.
If you decide to obtain a CDL A, it is easy. All you have to do is read the booklet, take a brief series of computerized exams, and demonstrate skill towing your own trailer with your own truck as long as the GVWR of truck and trailer add up to greater than 26k. You won't have an airbrake endorsement though.
Harvey,
Thanks for the quick response. How you state it is, pretty much, how I had it figured. Any hauling, for the ranch, with a trailer rated to put me over 26,000 (14,500 in this case), going beyond 150 miles, would require me to have a class A CDL.
If I were hauling my backhoe from my place in Missery to my place in TX. , on a 20,000 pound trailer and it wasn't considered a piece of farm equipment, I would need only a class A operators license.
In either case, you suggest DPS might not care.
Thanks,
Larry
Thanks for the quick response. How you state it is, pretty much, how I had it figured. Any hauling, for the ranch, with a trailer rated to put me over 26,000 (14,500 in this case), going beyond 150 miles, would require me to have a class A CDL.
If I were hauling my backhoe from my place in Missery to my place in TX. , on a 20,000 pound trailer and it wasn't considered a piece of farm equipment, I would need only a class A operators license.
In either case, you suggest DPS might not care.
Thanks,
Larry
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