Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Chambering issues DPMS .223

[p-Bar]

Hey guys question for you . Have a DPMS upper that I recently bought and tried to run some reloaded 223 ammo that I reloaded, the stuff wouldn't chamber . Then tried some Russian wolf ammo which chambered and shot ok . Have also had some issues in my Oly Arms . 223 also. I am using Dillon Carbide dies do I need to be using "small base " dies?? any advice would be helpful . Thanks in advance and Happy New year

 

[GHarman]

Hey guys question for you . Have a DPMS upper that I recently bought and tried to run some reloaded 223 ammo that I reloaded, the stuff wouldn't chamber . Then tried some Russian wolf ammo which chambered and shot ok . Have also had some issues in my Oly Arms . 223 also. I am using Dillon Carbide dies do I need to be using "small base " dies?? any advice would be helpful . Thanks in advance and Happy New year

Take some mic. readings on the Wolf ammo, at the base. Compare that dimension with the tight reloads. If there is an oversized base issue, you will have the proof. Check the bullet nose near the intersection of the ogive and the driving surface. See if there are land marks, on the bullet. That would indicate a long seated bullet, even though it may feed through the magazine. From what you have described, it sounds to me like a base diameter issue.

A small base die may benefit your situation. GregH

 

[The patriot]

I would get an empty case and try to chamber it.

If it dont chamber, slightly tighten down the sizing die until it does, then give it about 1/8th of a turn extra. (just a little)DONT FORGET THE LUBE!

Do the same with the first round that you have a charge and bullet in (in a safe direction) to assure they will chamber before making a buttload of them.

Better yet, make a complete round w/o powder to assure it's sized and seated correctly. Dont use a primer either.

If it's not a problem at the base like GHarman said, you just may be resizing them just not enough on the shoulder.

My last DPMS had a TIGHT chamber.

If this is the case with yours, you can adjust your dies and run her like that, or get someone to ream it to either 223 wylde or 5. 56mm NATO.

That way you can use 5. 56 surplus ammo w/o any problems. Oo.

 

[The patriot]

Just a thought.....

I have a RCBS Precision mic for 223. I LOVE this thing!!!

I can mail it to you if you'd like to see what's your exact headspace by measuring a fired round.

 

[GHarman]

PS! Maybe Patriot will chime in. He is one of the AR Gurus around her. I lost interest after Vietnam. Just not into the black rifles:-laf! I know they are a different animal compared to the A1's we were issued. They picked up alot of improvements in the last 40 years! Have fun with yours! GregH





I told you he would, beat me to it:-laf! GregH

 

[SRath]

I own one and it shoots real well, but all I really know about ammo issues is that the pointy end goes in first.

 

[GHarman]

Lots of issues, Scott. #1 is keep 'em clean! Including the gas tube!
. 223 Remington ammo is NOT the same as 5. 56MM NATO ammo. Chambers are different and more generous for the 5. 56 NATO, with a longer throat.
5,56 NATO ammo is loaded to 60,000PSI chamber pressure. SAAMI spec for . 223 Remington is 50,000 PSI chamber pressure. IF, you can cram a NATO round into a . 223 chamber, expect issues. There are custom compromise chambering such as the . 223 Wylde. However, my recent experience with the AR's is only academic. I did have a bolt action . 223 which I sold many moons ago. I shot that with handloads. Not so much of an issue as you find with gas guns.
Now if you want to talk M-1 or M-14/M1-A?
My experience with the M-16A1 was entirely Service related. I was not happy with that experience. I went through 4 weapons in my last tour.
The M-14 issued to me my first tour never malfunctioned and was quite accurate , for a "battle rifle".
As I said the M-16 has come a long way. The iconic "Barbie Doll" for Men:-laf!
Accessorize, Accessorize!
GregH

 

[The patriot]

Also, dont forget to clean your chamber!

 

[p-Bar]

Thanks Guys for your responses . Just got home last night from Texas visiting family . Brought my hardware there along with ammo and mic'd a loaded bullet went off SAMMI specs look like the neck is "bulged" maybe to much pressure on the bullet crimping station? The base measured OK a bit undersize , O. A length OK , I am looking around for my case gauge (no kids at home to blame) this would act the same as chambering the round ? Patriot not sure the Mic will work for me since I will be shooting in 2 different guns is this correct? , Scott think I was getting the pointy end in right. Greg thanks for your input sorry the "dream team" screwed up your A1's in Nam , trying to save a few bucks on cost per gun real smart thinking. M-14 how accurate in auto mode heard each bullet went higher and higher , saw where it was used in sniping . Thanks everyone for your help

 

[GHarman]

P-bar, The M-14 in full auto is like driving a race car with the petal to the metal and no hands on the steering wheel:-laf! Course there were those of us that could scrounge anything! I picked up a quite functional 1918 BAR and . 30 caliber ammo. I used it for a short period until my duties moved me into another situation where it was not practical (or optional to use a non T. O. weapon) to carry the thing along with an M-16 and a AN-PRC-25 Radio with all my gear!

Just like the D. I. said; "Ya gotta AIM, Maggot"!

GregH

 

[The patriot]

RCBS PRECISION MIC . 223 REM - YouTube

 

[The patriot]

My present AR count is 7(I think), so I resize them to the smallest chamber.

 

[JDiehl]

Really want a black rifle someday!



My Ruger M-77 bolt action . 223 will not chamber wolf ammo.

 

[GHarman]

Really want a black rifle someday!



My Ruger M-77 bolt action . 223 will not chamber wolf ammo.

If the Wolf ammo is designated 5,56 NATO. It should not! The chambers are not interchangeable with 5. 56 AMMO in a SAAMI spec . 223 Remington chamber. The NATO ammo has different(higher) pressure specs and seating depth/throating requirements.

If it is designated . 223 Remington? There may be manufacturing tolerance issues between the Ammo and the chamber. SAAMI is an American organization committed to standardization of firearms related dimensions and operating pressures. Foreign manufacturers commonly use CIP specs. Sometimes they are interchangeable. Then there are quality in manufacturing issues.

Measuring your ammo and comparing it to a common reloading manual with cartridge dimensions may show the irregularities? GregH

 

[Ross]

One of my AR's has a bit tighter chamber than the rest and won't chamber reloads if I don't size them right. I have to remember to full length size, with the die all the way down on the shell holder, where it cams over. This is a total departure from by bolt guns where I neck size only.



I think you found your problem though with the bulge caused by the crimp. I never crimp my 223s. I think it's a good safeguard for military personnel carrying ammo around on there person and in a bouncy vehicle, and also for water proofing, but for the average target shooter or varmint hunter, crimping is not necessary. I have also read this from noted AR experts. Crimp if you want, but it's not necessary.

 

[GHarman]

Unless you are using a cannelured bullet, specifically designed for crimping with the appropriate location to allow a crimped overall length to feed through the magazine. Do not crimp. It is not necessary! A properly sized neck will have more than adequate neck tension to hold the bullet in place.

The only ammo I crimp are loads for a lever action rifle and revolver. GregH

 

[p-Bar]

Thanks for that info I have read that also about crimping. I put all the rounds through my case gage and found 2 bullets that wouldn't go all the way through and noticed these were bulged at the bottom (looks like I didn't pull the die down to the stop) . I also found some that were tight then gave them a good wipe down and went in fine seem the case lube caused a "hydraulic" situation. I then proceeded to load them into a magazine and cycled some bullets manually found the colt mag failed proceeded with another cycled all bullets fine through both uppers. So a few lessons learned. My bullets are cannelured . Thanks Patriot I will look at that youtube.


Question on case lube my son says not to lube the neck what say you?

 

[GHarman]

P-bar, I lube inside the neck. That keeps the expander ball from stretching out the shoulder at the junction of the neck of the case. A small smear on the mouth of the case. A little goes a long way! A miniscule smear of lube on the outside of the neck is not an issue as long as there is not to much that it gets pushed back onto the shoulder. If that happens you will entrap the extra lube and get dents in the shoulder AND set the shoulder back.

You absolutely MUST remove ALL lubricant from the outside of the case and inside the neck. Why?

Outside; lubricant creates a piston effect and excessive bolt thrust when the round is fired. When the case obturates, it is also supposed to grip the walls of the chamber until the pressure falls away(bullet leaves the barrel) and the brass springs back.

Inside the neck; lubricant can contaminate the powder if the rounds are stored for long periods and/or subjected to temperatures that liquify the lube residue.

I clean my cases with solvent. I dont just wipe them off. With the lube I use, that is impossible, anyway! I've never had a stuck case in a die! GregH

 

[GHarman]

PS, a couple of details I forgot to mention. Trim all of your cases to the same length!
Crimp in a separate step! For . 223/5. 56 I dont believe it is necessary. GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

Bulged neck? Bulged under where the bullet is seated? Sounds to me like your brass is not seating deep enough in the die. YOu're not getting a full length resize.



Greg, that lube wouldn't come in a blue botter and have STP on the side, would it? It works good, by the way.....