Choosing a camper or TT. Heavier than advertised.

[Tuesdak]

Need some advice while trying to decide on a new slide in truck camper or new travel trailer after finding out just how much the weight of a camper pushes the limits of my 2003 truck. Seriously can tow nearly anything like a 40' 5er but quickly find the limits of a SRW 2WD 1 ton with a slide in camper. Two people and two small dogs. If it wasn't for the weight on a SRW and having to go 19.5's the TT wouldn't be an option.

Want to travel a little lighter than dragging a tire blowing trailer around. Done enough of that commercially and privately. (Not actually used an RV as an RV that much however.) Would like to park at restaurants and other tourism places with the genset lit to keep the dogs comfortable. Finding parking places being the second big plus to a camper. Let the dogs out ASAP when we get done with the tour or dinner before going back to the camping area. Say like a hike in the AZ petrified forest where it's a good drive back to a "free camping" campground in the area. Many 3 day trips and a week or two vacations at a time is what's planned. Forest Service Campgrounds and other 'public lands' out west including National Parks are on the bucket list.

This means AC and genset are required as well as a true Queen size bed - not a short special made mattress. Usable dinette seating aka booth two people can sit at rather than a "U" shaped whatever like the Lance 850 and others have. (I have yet to understand how one would use the dinette/sofa in the Lance 850 so maybe I miss something here.) Good usable bathroom is a big concern and many models of campers and trailers ruled out over horrible bathroom designs. 5% use time or whatever is still pretty important to us.

How much does the blasted slide in camper really weigh? Got to be the ultimate bait and switch that borderlines on fraud. Looks like an industry-wide problem. The weight sticker on most campers appears to be a parody set from the "Standard Options" number, same number as the sales brochure, with any resemblance to realty a pure coincidence.

#@$%!

NorthWood manufacturing who makes the Arctic Fox gets the ultimate lairs club bait and switch gold star here. Mandatory Value Pack adds 595 Lbs to the sticker on the camper. So an Arctic Fox of similar floorplan appears to be 600 LBS heavier than a Lance.

Lance gets an honorable mention for printing a useless "standard option" weight on the back of their campers. Yet I can go online and build my own by entering all the options from the build sheet at the Lance website and get a better guess as to the actual weight. Why not just weigh it and print that number?

Going to see how true it is, but Bigfoot and Northern Lite print an additional label with the actual dry weight of each camper after weighing it completed at the factory.

Options include things like an Air Conditioner, generator, battery, dinette storage door, Deluxe refrigerator door... Are you KIDDING Arctic Fox!? Doors are not standard?

Then add propane, batteries, and somewhat of a controllable variable of water. Next add My Stuff like paper plates, food and a roll of TP. TP? Yeah every pound counts.

So credit due to the Camper dealer for saying a double slide is too heavy for my SRW 3500. However the single slide units were said to be 'just fine' for my truck.

So we looked at the AF 992 and the Lance 975. At first pass the "Dry" weights is 3330 Lbs then "Wet" is 3793 Lbs. Uh, No it isn't. And here is the kicker: with 17" tires I have around 3700 lbs for camper weight after the truck stop scale truth test. So "standard options" weights looks like the truck and 17" tires can handle it. Reality is 3800 lbs for the Lance Dry with options and the AF so much higher it's out of the running.

Looking around I find a Northern Lite TEN 2000 EX 102EXCD - a non-slide camper that has a true weight sticker of around 3300 dry and 3500 LBS wet. (Bigfoots don't have a true Queen bed so they are out.)

So I am down to 3 choices:

1) We like the room of a Lance 975 slider with the dry bath and think it's a good trade off over a travel trailer. Would need 19.5 tires period. It will be 4500-5000 LBS loaded depending on how much water and stuff I put in.

2) The lightweight Northern Lite TEN 2000 EX 102EXCD would allow me to keep the new 17" tires I have, but a concern for being claustrophobic. None around we can tour at the moment. I would have to go 2 states north to pick one up and no local dealer. Extended warranty and all not sure if this is a good idea or not just from a warranty standpoint - the whole reason for going new in the first place.

3) Travel trailer like the Generator Ready Arctic Fox 24J Length 27'9" w/hitch.

So how do the campers handle over a travel trailer and is it worth it for the above use? (Trailers are like driving a Go-kart to me but not ever driven a slide in camper rig.)

Weight management: Is it realistic to obtain water near camping sites or for 3 day type of runs just fill the fresh water tank? 1 day drive there, 1 day camping there, 1 day driving back.

Truck has a Hellwig Big Wig rear stablizer bar on now and for a camper will have the ToqueLift stable loads or a reworked spring pack and 19.5 tires as needed.

How do the 19.5 tires handle/change the truck unloaded?

 

[Shadrach]

I've only had one camper experience with my Dodges and that was with my 03 Quad cab 4x4 SRW 3500 truck, just like yours, and a 9'6" camper made by Security in BC. I bought it specially to go to Columbus 3 years ago. It was a 1999 model and when I weighed it on my truck ready to go it was just shy of 12k#. The door sticker on my truck said 9900. I was travelling solo so no extra stuff or critters. Because of the way I had the truck set up it sat level, but with a cross wind coming off the mountains in Montana I wished I had had a Dually. Since I am used to a 28' TT with a 13' slide if I was ever to buy a camper again I would want a decent sized one and would like a Dually to haul it. With the mighty Cummins power is not an issue although I had a lot more wind to deal with because of the overhead bed. You also got to watch your head the first few times getting in and out. You learn.

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[Tuesdak]

I've only had one camper experience with my Dodges and that was with my 03 Quad cab 4x4 SRW 3500 truck, just like yours, and a 9'6" camper made by Security in BC. I bought it specially to go to Columbus 3 years ago. It was a 1999 model and when I weighed it on my truck ready to go it was just shy of 12k#. The door sticker on my truck said 9900. I was travelling solo so no extra stuff or critters. Because of the way I had the truck set up it sat level, but with a cross wind coming off the mountains in Montana I wished I had had a Dually. Since I am used to a 28' TT with a 13' slide if I was ever to buy a camper again I would want a decent sized one and would like a Dually to haul it. With the mighty Cummins power is not an issue although I had a lot more wind to deal with because of the overhead bed. You also got to watch your head the first few times getting in and out. You learn.

How do you like the 28'TT vs the camper?
12K is what it looks like I'd be at with the Lance and 11K with the NL.

 

[jeepit]

835 Lance..we love ours. Can get into places our TT can't go. It is small but we have adapted. Very cozy. We purchased it since we tow a Jeep hauler with our CJ7 or the Rubicon on it. A dually of course would be ideal but the SRW with the Camper Package handles it ok and we purchased it 4 years before the camper.
If we go on extended weekends or weeks w/o a Jeeping event we take the Jayco 25' camper. Just more room to move around in and we can take a lot more stuff in the back of the pickup.
Each has its destinct advantages.
I prefer the Lance. My wife prefers the Jayco.

 

[TJJEEPER]

My take...
I've got a 30 something foot 5th wheel toy hauler and a Lance 995.
The 5er measures 38' but is billed as a 34 or something like that. It weighs a bunch but the signature rig pulled it effortlessly.

The 5th wheel is MUCH more comfortable for longer stays. I use it mostly for my winter trips to the desert and playing with the quad.
The Camper is great for shorter stays OR when I want to tow the Jeep for those types of activities. The truck seems like a Jet after towing the trailer.
I've never weighed either rig. I've only weighed the Jeep on the car hauler to set up the hitch for Jeep/Camper use.

Having both have their advantages.
When using the Camper it's almost mandatory to bring the Jeep. It gives us something to drive around and explore. It is a real PITA to tear down and move when you're all set up in camp.
When using the 5th wheel you have your tow rig for transportation. Much easier for exploring (depending on how you're exploring... Crew duallys aren't off road vehicles)

When adding the camper I felt I had to add the Big Wig rear stabilizer and the TorqueLift hitch.
For the 5er I use an easily removable B&W hitch that leaves the bed empty and flat when removed.

I don't know about the other brands out there but Lance quality isn't what it used to be. I have to take it to the factory soon to fix an electrical problem I can't fix and there were a lot of nits I've had to fix. On the 5er, it a Raptor (Keystone product) and I would not buy another keystone product period.

Just a bit more than my 2 cents...

 

[Tuesdak]

The Lance 995 is the wet bath sister model to the dry bath 975 with a different floorplan. Kitchen space trade off for larger bathroom.

Having hauled RV's for hire in 2008 and looking at lots of them recently I agree 100% on build quality being lacking. Not just nit pick but had the entire roof come 1/4 clean off one new 5er and another wired so badly it nearly caught our truck on fire burning the ground wire out and melting it clean off the 5er plug with lots of smoke from the truck and RV in the factory yard. Visions of truck, 5er, and entire full yard of RV's going up stressing the 1mil insurance policy. Both went back to the factory for repairs.

We even considered Airstream when starting the hunt for an RV. Thought a 22' used would be perfect and stumbled on their frame failures. No illusions that I may have a soft ride SUV. Absolutely my 1 Ton with the mighty Cummins is going to break or rip the frame out from under a trailer if it's weak. Disappointed we moved on crossing them off the list. (The experience looking at them new at a local dealership and being lied to that they go up in value didn't help. ) IMO the build quality is the best, but, I just can't get over "fragile" in the size we want.

So we decided to find the best sturdy brand out there and go New because we want to enjoy it rather than spend a bunch of time repairing a worn out, neglected, or abused RV. (I would rather work on my rat rod or diesel truck project if I am in the man cave.)

For now the plan is to travel and see places and the Jeep/ATV offroading is a practical suggestion for the future.

 

[photowrite]

Need some advice while trying to decide on a new slide in truck camper or new travel trailer after finding out just how much the weight of a camper pushes the limits of my 2003 truck. Seriously can tow nearly anything like a 40' 5er but quickly find the limits of a SRW 2WD 1 ton with a slide in camper. Two people and two small dogs. If it wasn't for the weight on a SRW and having to go 19.5's the TT wouldn't be an option

How do the 19.5 tires handle/change the truck unloaded?

I won't comment on your specific camper/RV choices other than to say, yes, newer RVs seem to be generally constructed quite poorly.

I have both a camper, a newer, 6.5' Hallmark popup, and a travel trailer, a 1978 Avion 30' I've owned for 22 years. I've been using popup campers much more frequently for the past decade for all the mobility reasons mentioned, plus the ability to reach remote backcountry. After shopping for a newer, 'better', modern RV recently, I've decided to keep the old one I have. For as little as we use it, the Avion will continue to work for years more.

19.5" wheels/tires used to interest me, but I have increasingly less (almost zero) interest in a set because of the unloaded ride, or even loaded ride on rougher/dirt roads that I frequently visit, and the inability to run lower pressures safely. I've yet to read a well documented report where the longevity is much better/stellar, and there are some great modern LT tire sizes that support 2-tons, each, but maybe you need more than that. [two examples- 285/70R18 & 285/75R18E both support 4,080# at 80 psi].

Good luck with the shopping and deciding.

 

[Wertles]

I had 19.5's on my 06 and loved them. Empty ride was a touch harsher than stock but nothing that even the wife noticed unless it was a bad set of RR tracks. They greatly increased the ride quality when loaded. No squishy feeling out back and much more stability. Comparing that to my 13 DRW, it was in my opinion, about 80% as stable as about 50% with stock wheels. I also installed Pac Brake air bags to help level the load. I was only able to get 30,000 miles on stock size tires before they needed replacement. I put 30,000 on the 19.5's and they looked new. I have no doubt the claims of 100,000 miles per set would hold true. I can't comment on slide in vs trailer debate but I thought I'd chime in since I towed with the stock SRW configuration, towed heavy with a modified SRW truck and also towed heavy with a dually.

 

[Shadrach]

How do you like the 28'TT vs the camper?
12K is what it looks like I'd be at with the Lance and 11K with the NL.

For me with 2 adults, a teenager (and sometimes a second one) and a medium sized dog the TT is the way to go. You loose a lot of storage with a camper but it does have it advantages as mentioned. The TT has a bigger fridge and room for stuff. Unless it was just my wive and I we will stick to the TT. The TT allows you room to relax in and if you are stuck somewhere in bad weather you had better get along or one of you ( heavy on the YOU) will be in the truck cab a lot I don't have the money or the place to store for both so the TT wins. If I was ever to get another camper I would want a big one and that would mean a dually.

 

[Tuesdak]

Interesting the perspectives.

We looked at more RV's the past weekend to feel it out more.

There is worse build quality out there as we looked at a couple Travel Lite campers with the specific purpose of getting the weight down with the required generator, bed, etc. Their top of the line 1xxx Illusion models new: one had the linoleum pealing up on the bathroom floor. Other trivial stuff and it was just Yuck for quality. The non-slide was useful to rule out it and the NL campers as simply too small.

The 2017 975 (and maybe others) Lance campers do have a improvement as there is now a sticker in a cabinet with what it would weigh with all options that are over 20 LBS giving one a max of 4154 LBS and up to 150 LBS max of the less than 20 LBS items.

 

[Shadrach]

If you want compact have you thought about a Class C motorhome or even a Class A? I would think the new Cummins ISV 5.0 (the one in the Titan) would be available in a C soon.
David

 

[inlinesix3million]

I purchaced a 24J last year and am still very happy with it. I use a 1200/12000 lb Equalizer hitch. It has a better frame than most. I recently upgraded to 16" wheels from the 28F and

Bridgestone Duravis R250 235 /85 / R16's. I put an 8oz counteract balance bead bag in each and inflated to 68lbs. It tows better than ever- I shouldn't need tires for 10 years. ( barring

any road hazards, of course. ) I opted for the outdoor kitchen sized door with just shelving instead of the generator ready package. I use 2 Honda 2000's that will run the entire camper

no problem. This adds to an already great storage capacity and floorplan. The full size queen mattress is very comfortable. ( slept in it at least 60 nights so far )

If i were to full-time in it- I would order the dinette and re-upholster it and use a 4 legged table that can be moved. Everything else is great- kitchen, bath, bedroom, and entertainment

center. That being said- I enjoy my dinette immensely. I have an LED desk light clamped to it, along with a laptop stand for good ergonomics. The 32" flatscreen comes with a mount

that allows it to telescope and swivel for optimal viewing angles/ distances. Makes for a great workstation!

All that and an empty truck bed...