Chrysler and Fiat Will (apparently) Merge

[HBarlow]

Fiat Cars: Making Small Big Again

"The boards of Chrysler LLC and Fiat SpA have given their executives the green light to proceed with the proposed alliance between the two automakers, and have agreed on a basic framework. The fate of the deal now depends on the actions of the Obama Administration’s auto task force. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has already said the final form of the alliance could change based on the conditions the federal government puts on the loans Chrysler is hoping to obtain — one condition being that Fiat will start out with 20% ownership and will work its way up as they share technologies.

Automotive News learned that Chrysler plans to use six Fiat models. One is the Fiat Panda Cross, a 1. 3-liter-diesel powered off-road vehicle that gets nearly 40 mpg and would likely be sold as a Jeep in 2011 with a 1. 2 or 1. 4 liter gasoline engine. "

 

[HBarlow]

I suppose this is the best news we could hear out of many possible variations of bad news. This merger will apparently not have much of an effect on our beloved Dodge Ram Cummins trucks but will only replace all the Daimler-related junk Dodge cars with Dodge-badged Fiats of questionable value.

I hope it survives and Dodge continues to market and support our Dodge Rams.

 

[Grizzly]

I would say the merger with Fiat is good news if our beloved Dodge Ram Cummins trucks are secure and continue to produce great towing/hauling machines.

 

[jgillott]

I spent some time in Rome in the early '90's and almost all of the Taxi cabs were little Fiat sedans. Trust me when I tell you that those drivers made the NYC Taxi drivers looks like the safest drivers in the world. I have no Idea what type of quality Fiat has now, but those little cars sure did take a beating back then.

 

[AHarris]

I remember the Fiats that we had back in the late 70s. They were real pieces of feces. Our neighbor back then had a Fiat Brava little sedan and it spent more time in the shop than it did her driveway and accelerated about as well as a school bus. Hope Fiat is come along since then,,,their last visit to the US marketplace didn't go over too well.

 

[fest3er]

... Our neighbor back then had a Fiat Brava little sedan and it spent more time in the shop than it did her driveway and accelerated about as well as a school bus... .

Fix It Again, Tony!

 

[rscurtis]

My experience with Fiat goes back to 1990 when the rental business I used to have bought an Iveco of that year new. They were "clearing the decks" at that time. It really wasn't a bad truck, better than the same vintage Ford, and smoother riding than the Isuzu or Mitsubishi-Fuso. The issue was lack of dealer support, and the cost of parts. Front pads-$450. Rotors-$400 each and they had to come from Italy. Parking brake valve-$425-was in stock in California. The air-over-hydraulic brake system was particularly troublesome, but the Fiat engine was excellent-not as smooth and refined as a 12 valve, but dead reliable.

Keep in mind also that Fiat is presently on the cutting edge of CR fuel system technology. Perhaps we'll have a choice of some small Diesel cars as a result of this merger.

 

[AHarris]

Overall I think this is a good thing. Chrysler needs some help in the small car arena since their current small car offerings are mediocre at best. Fiat seems to be a pretty well respected car in Europe and one can only hope their US offerings are as good as what is on the road in the UK and France. If they bring the crap here like they did in the 70s (as I mentioned in my previous post) this will only serve to prolong the pain to the ultimate end of Chrysler.

Chrysler needs to get its act together in the cars, because I have to tell ya that the new Fords coming out are pretty tempting. They have several cars listed as "Recommended" by Consumer Reports Magazine and I'm thinking seriously of getting my wife a Ford Flex to replace her current aging ride. As for GM cars, it's one of those things that never felt quite right when I sit behind the wheel of one. I'd much rather have a Ford or even a Chrysler car when, for example, I select a rental car. When gas prices go back up (and they will), Chrysler better have something more competitive than the pathetic Caliber or silly Sebring. Those things are junk. On the other hand, a Charger with a torquey little diesel would be nice too!

As a PS, the last time I rented a car I got a Mazda 5. I wasn't very excited when the counter person told me this is what I was getting. But when I got in it and drove it for a week--wow! Super little vehicle with great handling and fuel economy too that could still haul 6 people!! That is also on the short list for my wife's next car. Perfect for hauling our carload of kids around while not killing us at the gas pump.

Sorry if I got a case of diarrhea of the keyboard here... :-laf

 

[AKaiser]

I think if you look at Allpar, Chrysler is getting it's act together in cars. The 300C was the beginning of that trend. It's about the only thing out there besides Caddys (which I dislike the looks of) that doesn't look like a German sedan (which is ironic if you think about it, as it, like the Charger and Challenger, are actually based on one) . Take a look at the 200C. There's talk that the 200C would share a platform with an Alfa Romeo car in the same segment. The Fiat deal is workable because Fiat doesn't really compete with much that ChryCo offers. They're truly compatible in that respect: they offer each other things that the other doesn't have and needs. Couldn't say the same of Daimler.

 

[bheiting]

I can't see what Fiat will gain from Chrysler, or vice versa. Chrysler is hemorrhaging
cash. Fiat isn't willing to put dime into the deal. Cerberus has said it will basically
write off it's investment in Chrysler. Wouldn't Fiat be better off letting Chrysler file
bankruptcy and then pick out the assets it wants. Nissan seems to be interested in the
truck division, at least as a partner. The only other division that makes money is Jeep.
Someone will pick that up. Someone on another site joked about the Mafia being a
soul mate for our crooked bankers. Chrysler Financial has refused TARP so it's
top brass won't lose their bonuses. They'll be able to pick the bones clean no matter
what happens. You don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Next week will definitely be interesting.

 

[AKaiser]

bheiting: Fiat gains access to US markets and vice versa. Chrysler gets manufacturing work for it's plants for market segments it doesn't have much going in (smaller stuff that people are buying). Fiat gets access to platforms that Chrysler is excelling in (LX replacement: 300C, Charger, Challenger, 200C), and access to technology such as ENVI (and vice versa) that will change the auto industry and the balance of power with regards to petroleum markets.



The two are a synergistic mix as they don't have a competition issue. Fiat doesn't have anything in the US, and Chrysler is just the ticket for that. Win-win.



ChryFi refused TARP because at that time, it had no need for it (sales volume didn't support it. ) Top brass isn't that stupid, especially in light of the bad press from the AIG incident.



Don't believe everything you read, especially if you only read the headlines. Our "mainstream" press is notorious for putting irresponsible and misleading headlines on everything. Remember, these are the same people, ideologically, that said our Viet Nam vets were all baby killers. You know how that turned out.

 

[Dieselnut59]

I would love to see more diesel offerings. So many companies are focusing on the hybrid hype. I would much rather see a TRUE fuel efficient, much simpler design offering that is still practical to use and drive. We need a SMALL truck, like the Nissans and Toyotas with a diesel engine. It would get around 40 mpg. A small car that could get 50-60 mpg would be possible also. Hopefully a company with experience in the diesel market will bring some of that technology here.

 

[bheiting]

AKaiser
It seems that if Fiat makes a commitment, Treasury will give Chrysler billions more,
long enough for Fiat to scrap the product lines that don't make money and hang on to
the dealerships. Synergies will take years, if they work at all. They sure didn't with
Daimler. Chrysler doesn't have that much time.
You have way more confidence in Chrysler management than I do. Quality issues have
been a problem for decades. Like my CP3 replaced at 9000 mi. How many years have
they had leaky pumps. And the leaking trans cooler line coupling replaced at the same
time. Another problem they have had as long as the third gen. has been around.
The TARP refusal was in fact the result of executive pay issues

 

[HBarlow]

AKaiser
It seems that if Fiat makes a commitment, Treasury will give Chrysler billions more,
long enough for Fiat to scrap the product lines that don't make money and hang on to
the dealerships. Synergies will take years, if they work at all. They sure didn't with
Daimler. Chrysler doesn't have that much time.
You have way more confidence in Chrysler management than I do. Quality issues have
been a problem for decades. Like my CP3 replaced at 9000 mi. How many years have
they had leaky pumps. And the leaking trans cooler line coupling replaced at the same
time. Another problem they have had as long as the third gen. has been around.
The TARP refusal was in fact the result of executive pay issues

I also have confidence in Chrysler managment. Many of their problems of the last few years were forced on them by Daimler. Daimler looted the Chrysler treasury, forced Chrysler to buy many German parts such as the G-56 transmission for Daimler's benefit, and bet wrong on many of the current crop of small cars then dumped Chrysler.

With two previous Dodge Rams, an '01 with 325k miles and an '06 with 230k miles, I had very few problems and none of the ones you cited. I do not have a family tradition or personal history of buying MOPAR. My '01 Ram was my first. I consider them far better, far more durable and reliable than either Ford or GM products.

I also owned a Chrysler 300C hemi sedan. It was an excellent automobile. Fast, comfortable, quiet, plush, economical, and nice looking.

 

[AKaiser]

bheiting: I'm not foolish enough to think that Chrysler products are without their faults, but I've owned three since I bought a used 92 Dakota in 1995, and have had very few issues, got 192K out of it. Second was a 99 Ram 1500 w. 318 I bought in 2001 at around 33K. Never touched anything on it internal, except for a MAP sensor. Did have to do some front end work (trackbar, sector shaft, and axle joints) and rear brakes. Traded it in at 175K on this truck, 2005 Big Horn 2500 which is at 83,300 as of last night. Only thing done to this one is a rear u-joint under warranty.



And yes, I have more faith in current management than you. Now, the guys in D. C. , that's another story. I will give them credit for not letting the creditors rape and pillage CC before Fiat, the UAW, and Cerberus get a chance to write a workable deal. After all, the UAW doesn't want to become the "Unemployed Auto Workers" and I don't think Cerberus wants the stigma of being the "Dog that killed Chrysler. " I'm not expecting an overnight miracle. We've been in Iraq since 2003.