club cab to crew cab

[mazdarotary]

Hey guys,



I did a search on this,but didn't really come up with any answers. I am sure this has been asked before,but I must not be typing in the right key words for the search. My question is regarding a swap to a crew cab. I was wondering if the frame mounting points,and overall length of a club cab with 8' bed was the same as a crew cab with the 6. 5' bed?If so would I be able to just put a crew cab body on my club cab,nad use a short bed?Would the frame from my 92 clubcab be any stronger than say an 85 crew cab short bed?If the frame mounts are different for what ever reason on a crew cab,would I be better lengthening the crew cab frame,changing mount points,or is it just better,and easier to use the crew cab as a whole,and drop the drivetrain from my 92 in it?I know these are some questions out of left field,and I bet they have been covered before,but please bear with me here. My wife is expecting our second child,and my club cab isn't going to be fun to fit 2 car seats in. I would love a new truck,maybe even a mega cab,but I don't have that kind of money. I could probably swing a gasser right now with the good deals they are giving,but I will miss my Cummins. My 92 has 231K miles on it now,but it runs great,and I think it has plenty of life left(knock on wood),plus it is paid for. Thanks in advance.



Chris

92 D250 Club cab

83 Mazda RX-7 soon to be parted

79 Mazda RX-7 GS early production(5/78)

74 Mazda Rotary pick-up truck

 

[SGibson]

I personally would put the motor in the crew as is and retro fit any improvements the 92 has on to it.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Put the crewcab body on the new chassis and save yourself a ton of work. My winter project is to bolt a 78 crewcab short bed body on my 93 dually and add dually fenders to the short bed. As far as I can tell it should be the same until you get to the rear mounts. we haven't decided what we are going to do we may add a set of mounts to the cab and a set to the chassis to stiffen it up a bit. You ca ncheck out the trucks I am working with here... .



http://www.cdwmotorsports.com/crewcab_build.htm

 

[DKarvwnaris]

It may be more work to swap the diesel drivetrain into the crew cab, but you'll be ahead in the long run. All the parts will bolt in. If you completely gut the two trucks, you can also put the ext cab back together as a gasser and sell it. Might be more than you want to do, but the only real costs involved would be driveshafts and minor parts.

Frame lengthening while not hard to do, is time consuming, not to mention very hard to find the space and time to commit to with all the other work you'll have to be doing.

Make sure you pull everything including the axles and springs out of you diesel truck as well. This will make parts replacement and ordering easier in the future.

Kenny at Autoworld has done exactly what you want to do before. his phone # is 40 727 8915. You have barely broken the engine in at 200,000. That's usually the mileage I look for when buying one used. Most are afraid to buy them that high, but I've had great luck with the dodges I've found in that mileage range.

Don't forget to swap the Diesel Gas tank over as well, it should be plastic, unlike most of the older crew cab's which had steel tanks still.

 

[mazdarotary]

Thanks for the replies. I was wonder also my 92 club cab is a 2wd,and the one I am looking to get is a 4wd. What do I do with the transmission(NV4500 swapped in already) to make it adapt to a transfer case?Would the transfer case in the gasser be up to the task of handling the torque of the Cummins?As far as the fuel tank goes,I thought I read someone on here having issues with the fitment of the diesel tank on the gasser frame. Is that true?If so how do you modify the tank,or its mounts to make it fit. Wow I am full of questions. Here is another. My truck has a transfer-flow tank mounted where the spare tire used to mount. Would the dimensions of a short bed be the same in that location as a long bed,so that I could still have dual tanks?As far as 4wd goes will I need to get a heavier duty front axle to install in the truck,to match the 3. 54:1 axle ratio of my rear end in the diesel truck?I hope I am not being a pain in the but here. Thanks in advance.



Chris

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Thanks for the replies. I was wonder also my 92 club cab is a 2wd,and the one I am looking to get is a 4wd. What do I do with the transmission(NV4500 swapped in already) to make it adapt to a transfer case?



Chris

You are just making this as difficult as possible aren't you.

You need to decide what is more important to you, having a 4wd truck, or having a 2wd truck. Either way, it is going to be alot of work, the difference is going to be fitup parts etc.

Since you are dealing with entirely different frames, you may be better to cab swap the two trucks and hope you can get the rear mounts of the crew cab to sit on the 2wd frame. I can't remember the dimensional lengths of the crew cab to club cab frames, but I think the crew cab has a longer section under the cab area than the club. This may be a problem getting the crew to fit over it without a body lift or stretching the frame out in this area. I'd refrain against cutting the frame and lengthening it, if the cab won't fit onto the 2wd frame withint reason, I'd go with the 4wd chassis and just deal with the transmission to transfer case fit up issue.

The 2wd transmission could be traded in for a rebuilt 4wd unit with several of the major trannny builders, or you could sell it outright and buy the 4wd unit. I seem to remember dodge using both 203 and 305 transfer cases in their 4wd gassers in the 70's and 80's depending on the order sheet for the truck.

I myself would just be happy with the club cab, given the non compatible donor and prospective truck,they're less than ideal for an economical swap either way. My dodge is only an ext cab truck, but I have had two car seats in the back of it for the last 2 years. My son and his counter part in trouble( neighbors kid) come along all the time to the parks and shopping. It isn't as bad as you think, you can order a full bench reara seat for you ext cab 1st generation for a hundred dollars, substantially less than what you're looking to do here. My 93 club cab had just as much room in the back for car seats, with the aftermarket bench seat.

If you come across a 1sr generation 4wd diesel that has as a nv-4500 conversion and the 205, you'd be in a different situation. Even if its a standard cab, you can still use the majority of the parts to get where you want. The 205 diesel transfer cases are upwards of $500 or better at most wrecking yards, add the cost of a 4500 transmission and you're going to be over $2000. 00 just to get the drive train parts handled. Not counting another $600 or more for two driveshafts.

 

[mazdarotary]

You are just making this as difficult as possible aren't you.

You need to decide what is more important to you, having a 4wd truck, or having a 2wd truck. Either way, it is going to be alot of work, the difference is going to be fitup parts etc.

Since you are dealing with entirely different frames, you may be better to cab swap the two trucks and hope you can get the rear mounts of the crew cab to sit on the 2wd frame. I can't remember the dimensional lengths of the crew cab to club cab frames, but I think the crew cab has a longer section under the cab area than the club. This may be a problem getting the crew to fit over it without a body lift or stretching the frame out in this area. I'd refrain against cutting the frame and lengthening it, if the cab won't fit onto the 2wd frame withint reason, I'd go with the 4wd chassis and just deal with the transmission to transfer case fit up issue.

The 2wd transmission could be traded in for a rebuilt 4wd unit with several of the major trannny builders, or you could sell it outright and buy the 4wd unit. I seem to remember dodge using both 203 and 305 transfer cases in their 4wd gassers in the 70's and 80's depending on the order sheet for the truck.

I myself would just be happy with the club cab, given the non compatible donor and prospective truck,they're less than ideal for an economical swap either way. My dodge is only an ext cab truck, but I have had two car seats in the back of it for the last 2 years. My son and his counter part in trouble( neighbors kid) come along all the time to the parks and shopping. It isn't as bad as you think, you can order a full bench reara seat for you ext cab 1st generation for a hundred dollars, substantially less than what you're looking to do here. My 93 club cab had just as much room in the back for car seats, with the aftermarket bench seat.

If you come across a 1sr generation 4wd diesel that has as a nv-4500 conversion and the 205, you'd be in a different situation. Even if its a standard cab, you can still use the majority of the parts to get where you want. The 205 diesel transfer cases are upwards of $500 or better at most wrecking yards, add the cost of a 4500 transmission and you're going to be over $2000. 00 just to get the drive train parts handled. Not counting another $600 or more for two driveshafts.

I am sory if I am being a pain in the ***. I really don't won't to go through tons of work,but I am confident in my abilities to transform a a gasser crew to a diesel. As far as 4wd/2wd goes I don't really care either way. I have a 2wd now,and it has served me well,but I live in New england,and snow is an issue,so having 4wd would be nice. I guess I could go either way with the cab swap,or the engine/drivetrain swap,and be looking at a significant amount of work either way from what you are saying. Is there anyway I could have my current 2wd NV4500 transmission converted to a 4wd transmission?Could I use a divorced transfer case,or is the wheel base too short on a crew cab short bed for that setup?



I have a bench seat in the rear of my club cab now(www.pcvrv.com),and it fits us just fine with one car seat,but I worry about having another(my wife is expecting in August). I really wish the passengers side seat was adjustable front to back like in most truck so I could pull the seat forward to allow more room in the rear. My wife is short,and has plenty of leg room on her side,but there really isn'tr much room for kids feet in a car seat back there. Maybe I should be looking into getting an adjustable seat for the passenger side,and save all this time,and money. I guess I was just thinking a crew would allow easier access to the kids with doors and such,and allow us a little more legroom in the rear. I really would like a new truck,but with the new mortgage,and another kid on the way the money won't allow for that,so I am just looking to get more room while keeping my beloved 12valve Cummins. I really like the look of the first gen truck more than any other as well. Thanks for the input,and any other help would be appreciated.



Chris

92 D250 Club cab NV4500

83 Mazda RX-7 limited edition

79 Mazda RX-7 GS early production

74 Mazda Rotary Pickup truck

 

[DKarvwnaris]

You're not being a pain. Converting the transmission you have over to a 4wd will require disassembling it and intalling a new main shaft from a 4wd, along with a 4wd tailhousing, (its more than that, but you get the idea)

Using a divorced transfer case is feasible in this application, but it will end up being a wash in my eyes compared to a regular 4wd transmission and transfer case. You have the length for it, but if anything goes out, you'll be having to remember what the parts came out of you are using since you can't just tell the parts trolls at Autozone, Advanced, PartsAmerica or whoever you go to.

Divorced transfer cases are not available for anything until you get into medium duty trucks currently. You could locate an older Ford transfer case, but why bother. A dodge 4wd transmission and transfer case will allow you to use a factory cross member, factory equipped speedo sensor, and be less work all around.

If you want 4wd, find a 4wd diesel donor as I mentioned, or buy the transmission and transfer case from a Junk yard as a whole. This will save you finding shifter brackets, levers etc. You could possibly get a front driveshaft from the deal as well. (I would look to have the 2wd sent in for a core on a 4wd and make sure the transmission is in good order, then order a transfer case from a salvage yard myself, but that's me).

Your needs and plans aren't out of reason, just beyond the scope of most folks to tackle. You will be without the truck for several weeks unless you can afford to take a week or more off and commit to the conversion entirely, not to mention have a large area to do the work in.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Rotary the cab swap as I said earlier is going to be way less time and resource consuming than the drivetrain swap... aside from the cab mounts which even I am not sure of the extent of modification they will take the rest of it is cake. Wiring being moved maybe the newer heating elements from the club and the dash is all you have to move... . by the way the dash will directly bolt in.

 

[HSchroen]

Thanks for the replies. I was wonder also my 92 club cab is a 2wd,and the one I am looking to get is a 4wd. What do I do with the transmission(NV4500 swapped in already) to make it adapt to a transfer case?Would the transfer case in the gasser be up to the task of handling the torque of the Cummins?As far as the fuel tank goes,I thought I read someone on here having issues with the fitment of the diesel tank on the gasser frame. Is that true?If so how do you modify the tank,or its mounts to make it fit. Wow I am full of questions. Here is another. My truck has a transfer-flow tank mounted where the spare tire used to mount. Would the dimensions of a short bed be the same in that location as a long bed,so that I could still have dual tanks?As far as 4wd goes will I need to get a heavier duty front axle to install in the truck,to match the 3. 54:1 axle ratio of my rear end in the diesel truck?I hope I am not being a pain in the but here. Thanks in advance.



Chris

The fuel tank from the 1st Gen diesel will NOT fit under a Crew Cab... trust me I tried! You need a gas tank from a 1992-1993 D150/250/350 with the gas Magnum motor (360 Magnum is 1993 only). The tank I'm using is from a '92 D150 (long bed at that) with a 5. 2L Magnum and is a perfect fit (30 gallon as well).

 

[stacerbob]

Have you considered a divorced 205 transfer case?

 

[Doc Holiday]

The fuel tank from the 1st Gen diesel will NOT fit under a Crew Cab... trust me I tried! You need a gas tank from a 1992-1993 D150/250/350 with the gas Magnum motor (360 Magnum is 1993 only). The tank I'm using is from a '92 D150 (long bed at that) with a 5. 2L Magnum and is a perfect fit (30 gallon as well).

Do you not own a torch or a welder?





As a footnote they never put a stroked bb in a 1972 A-body DOdge either but I own one with a stroked 451 in it... ... anything will fit anywhere with the right tools, knowledge and a sack.

 

[mazdarotary]

Have you considered a divorced 205 transfer case?

Indeed I have,and that is definatly an option. There is a pretty nice 82 W350 crew on ebay now,that I am thinking of bidding on,but I have no idea what its worth. It is around $2300 right now,and is in SC. I think I may be better off getting the one HSchroen is selling. It is tough getting down to TX to have a look at it though,and buying on Ebay is tough as well. I wish I could find one local to me,but that seems like it is impossible.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Indeed I have,and that is definatly an option. There is a pretty nice 82 W350 crew on ebay now,that I am thinking of bidding on,but I have no idea what its worth. It is around $2300 right now,and is in SC. I think I may be better off getting the one HSchroen is selling. It is tough getting down to TX to have a look at it though,and buying on Ebay is tough as well. I wish I could find one local to me,but that seems like it is impossible.

Tough finding a 4WD in MA?!! Get outside the city areas and look for a farmers rusty plow truck or take a trip to upstate NY. Nearly every field in the "Upstate area" has at least 3 pickups sitting out there rusting away. The but the bodies are rotting off them from the salty roads, but the drivetraines are usually in good shape still. I find a sister truck to my 96 dodge in Syracuse NY that the cab had given way and dropped 6" on one side. The engine had less than 150,000 miles on it. I passed on it due to the miles between there and Montana, I was only home visiting family. They wanted $3500. 00 for it. This was 2 years ago. Looking back, I should have paid to have it transported west.

Don't bother with the Texas truck sales scheme, especially with all the flooded LA trucks turning up throughout the south.

 

[HSchroen]

Do you not own a torch or a welder?





As a footnote they never put a stroked bb in a 1972 A-body DOdge either but I own one with a stroked 451 in it... ... anything will fit anywhere with the right tools, knowledge and a sack.

Not sure how a torch or welder will help with a plastic tank

 

[HSchroen]

Tough finding a 4WD in MA?!! Get outside the city areas and look for a farmers rusty plow truck or take a trip to upstate NY. Nearly every field in the "Upstate area" has at least 3 pickups sitting out there rusting away. The but the bodies are rotting off them from the salty roads, but the drivetraines are usually in good shape still. I find a sister truck to my 96 dodge in Syracuse NY that the cab had given way and dropped 6" on one side. The engine had less than 150,000 miles on it. I passed on it due to the miles between there and Montana, I was only home visiting family. They wanted $3500. 00 for it. This was 2 years ago. Looking back, I should have paid to have it transported west.

Don't bother with the Texas truck sales scheme, especially with all the flooded LA trucks turning up throughout the south.

"Texas truck sales scheme"?? I bought mine from the Arkansas Forestry Commission, well before the Hurrincanes hit anyway.

 

[mazdarotary]

"Texas truck sales scheme"?? I bought mine from the Arkansas Forestry Commission, well before the Hurrincanes hit anyway.

Hey HSchroen,I never called it a "scheme" by the way. So far you have been nothing but cordial,and helpful. I am not having a hard time finding a 4wd here in MA. I am however having trouble finding a crew cab. That is why I am probably going to buy the red Truck in TX that club member HSchroen is selling. I have seen plenty of rusted out hulks here in New England,and most if not all are 4wd that is not the issue. I want a crew that is in decent shape frame,and cab wise so that I can transplant the good sheet metal,and Cummins from my 92 Club cab D250 on to. I really only need a good cab,and a short bed I guess to swap to my frame,but the idea of having 4wd,and all is apealing.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Not sure how a torch or welder will help with a plastic tank

Well I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less from someone that thinks things can't fit... . I was talking about making the room for the tank in the back of the cab or bed whichever part was causing the problem. There is nothing a little metal fab can't fix. There is a back seat to cover whatever mods you do to it... and if you are good no one but you would ever see it. If nothing else a little body lift would surely clear whatever the obstruction was. Either way I can promise you the diesel tank that is in the chassis of my 350 is what will be in it when I get the crewcab body sat onto my truck.

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Not sure how a torch or welder will help with a plastic tank

I was hoping some other wiseguy would pick up on that.



All I could see was a rather slooooww glorified tire tech that worked for me when I had my off road shop. The Genius melted the polystyrene bumper insert in a Jeep Cherokee with a torch. It went up in a smoldering cloud of black smoke and dripping plastic similiar to a candle. He was luckily wearing a face shield so he only burned his chest with dripping plastic residue. We called him "Nair Boy" for months. I still don't understand what he had the torch so close to the bumper for, he was replacing bushings in the sway bars and front end links.

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

If you wish to keep your crew cab conversion simple, use the frame you have now and have it lenghtened to fit the crewcab. The 1989 to 1993 frames used for the Cummins powered trucks are heavier built than 1988 and down frames and you will have a stronger setup. ALSO the fuel tank from a 1989 to 1993 will bolt in on a long box frame. I personally prefer the long box crewcab setup (I built 2 of them ). Be sure to fix the A pillar leaks and you will most likely find your rear doors have stress cracks at the window divider so mig weld them before painting. Check out my trucks in reader's rigs.

Kyle