Clutch exaggeration...... or fact?

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

Is it possible to weld a clutch together so that it won't disengage by means of overheating it? A buddy was doing a break stand to burn off his old tires on his '01 or '02 or whatever it is, and he tried to shift to third and keep the tires spinning. The truck stalled, now he can't disengage his clutch. He pushes the pedal to the floor and nothing happens. Me and another buddy say he blew something in his hydraulic assembly, but the guy insists that he overheated his clutch to the point that it fused the discs together. Is this even possible?

 

[ZedMikey]

Was he feathering the clutch the whole time? If it wasn't slipping for an extended period, I highly doubt it got hot enough to do something crazy like welding components together.

 

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

Just rev'd 'er up and dumped the clutch to start the brake stand, when he went to shift to third he somehow jammed it in, the wheels slowed down and the truck lunged forward, then stalled. After that he could press the clutch pedal, but it wouldn't disengage the clutch.

 

[GCroyle]

TSC,



Temperatures at the clutch interface of friction material to the cast iron approaches temperatures that can actually get the surface hot enough to smear or flow the actual cast iron surface. This requires a surface temp of about 2100 degrees F.



Aluminum melts at 1200 degrees F.



I think if you get this stuff hot enough with the pressure during a controlled idiot slip, then I bet it is melted together.



One time I personally saw the affect of heat in a 6 cylinder Jeep during endurance testing for the facings. They, the engineering team with a factory provided Jeep melted the crankshaft position sensor into a pile of plastic lava.



P. S. The Jeep wasn't allowed to move one inch. The brakes were locked.







Time to e-mail Myth Busters and let them try it.

 

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

I would think there'd be some smoke or something involved in the welding of clutch discs, of which there was none... at least not from the transmission area. He has the full feramic clutch from south bend, if that means anything to you, as far as materials go.



Also there was some fluid all over the underside of the truck near the transmission. The guy who thinks his clutch is welded says its just motor oil that's leaked over time. My buddy who agrees with me that he blew something in his hydraulic assembly says its too thin to be motor oil, and thinks its hydraulic fluid.

 

[Rattler]

Yes you can weld your clutch up. I did it while doing burn-outs at the Mopar Nationals in 08. I have the South Bend Con-Ofe. I could shift the trans when the truck was off, but not when it was running. I called Peter at South Bend and he confirmed that yes i had welded the ceramic facing to the flywheel. He suggested that i break it loose and it would be fine. We ended up putting my truck in 4-high , 4th gear and pulling it with another truck. It moved about a foot and poped really loud. After that everything has been fine. ( the truck was not running when we pulled it). Hope this helps. Randy

 

[dclassens]

I live in the north and in a lot of local farms, tractors are only used in summer months for fruit harvests. I have seen many clutch discs stuck together form sitting all winter, almost as if the disc rusted to the flywheel. Actual heat, I guess it could happen.



dave

 

[GCroyle]

dclassens,



You are correct. A clutch that is in storage for a long period of time can rust together. This I think can be caused by storing in a moist area or pressure washing or steam cleaning and then not running the equipment to completely heat it up and dry it off. I own a 1964 vintage 10hp Cub Cadet and if I get any water on the clutch and put it away wet, it will rust up in a few days and then I have to release it and tap the friction disc to free it up.

 

[dclassens]

WE work on LOTS of older John Deere tractors such as 1020, 2020, 2240, 2440, 2355, 2555 along with Case 430 570 885 990 995. They will rust from end of summer and we will often get then in for repair and all it takes is CAREFUL driving around the yard with clutch pedal movement and gear shifting. All of a sudden a pop and everything is fine. My goal is to hit 30 tractor clutches this year, as I am at 24 right now. Most of these have fork mast on front of tractor and only used to move cherry tanks from orchard to truck. My favorite is when clutch disc is down to metal tabs or center is broken out of disc.

 

[PToombs]

Matt, I started to melt my stocker from slipping it. You could smell it though. When I replaced it, there were 2 spots about silver dollar size like GC talked about. You could see where the metal melted and pulled, one on the flywheel and one on the pressure plate. Kinda cool, until I thought about the cost of the new clutch. :-laf

 

[GCroyle]

dclassens,



I would like try a farm tractor sometime, nothing like doing it compared to wondering what its like to split a tractor.



On the classic sticking problem, this might be at least something to consider. What would happen if you blocked the clutch pedal in a released position? You would have to weigh the potential problem that long term release might do to the cover vs. the gain of not having it rust up. Just an idea, not necessarily a solution. What does the owners manual say about long term storage?

 

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

Pete, there definitely was no burning clutch smell involved. I smelled diesel exhaust and burning rubber... unless those feramic clutches don't really smell when they burn. I did tell him to try driving it around the yard with the clutch pedal pushed in, and goosing it once in a while. I would think that motor would have enough umph to break it free, no? Upon further examination, his hydraulics seem to be ok. A few have suggested that he possibly blew up his throwout bearing... or for that matter, he could have broken or warped his clutch fork... . or, doubtful yet possible, broken the fingers of the "diaphram" on the pressure plate?



I guess he's having trouble with the truck just dying after running for a minute or two now also. It threw a code that someone referred to as "the death code" which apparently means his injection pump is circling the drain... which is a brand new pump.



I'd say this one was probably around a 9 on the stupid meter, eh?

 

[JLEONARD]

I'd say this one was probably around a 9 on the stupid meter, eh

I had a boss once who used to say "if you aren't breaking anything you aren't learning anything".



Hopefully he learned sumptin.

 

[Rattler]

When i stuck the clutch in my truck, i thought no big deal, i would just break it free. I put the truck in 4-low with the box turned up and hammered the pedal, it would break the tires loose and then i would back off the pedal fast and let it slide the tires. It would not break free, then i got worried, as i was 400 miles from home with a trailer and car to get home. Randy