Clutch hydraulics

[SAndreasen]

Can the hydraulics be bled or do I have to replace the slave and master cylinder?

 

[Timd32]

Never worked on one, but this is the note I found. Like all thing maybe someone has a trick.

NOTE: The clutch master cylinder, remote reservoir, slave cylinder and connecting lines are all serviced as an assembly. These components cannot be serviced separately. The linkage cylinders and connecting lines are sealed units. They are pre-filled with fluid during manufacture and must not be disassembled nor disconnected.

 

[NIsaacs]

I think our resident clutch guy has a video on that. Dodge don't recommend replacing just one part, however I do. You can buy them separate from aftermarket. The combo is expensive. Yes, they are a booger to bleed.

 

[BigPapa]

Here you go.

If you test and find air here’s how to get it out.

It helps if you took a water bottle and put it horizontal on a table. See the bubble it’s at the top. Don’t even think about making it go out of the SC bleed screw if equipped instead make it go UP and out of the MC. With it removed tip the SC push rod end straight DOWN to force the bubble to the connection for the line. Now slowly compress the push rod all the way in.
Go back to the water bottle to visualize where bubble is and how to get it to the connection.

Helper is under truck hood reservoir cap off and monitor progress. Fluid level, down and bubbles popping.

You should also have truck pointed slightly downhill so bubble goes back and easily exits thru transfer port in MC.

No one even touches the clutch pedal for this procedure.

This provides visual confirmation. See the bubbles?

Visualize where the bubble could hide it always wants to go UP so let it go up.

Starting at about 22:30 in this video that is the same MC and similar SC being replaced and bled out of the truck.

Starting at about 22:30 in this video that is the same MC and similar SC being replaced and bled out of the truck.

 

[SAndreasen]

I think our resident clutch guy has a video on that. Dodge don't recommend replacing just one part, however I do. You can buy them separate from aftermarket. The combo is expensive. Yes, they are a booger to bleed.

I’ve never seen anyway to bleed one

 

[SAndreasen]

 

[Joe Mc]

BigPapa, thanks for sharing the video. I have an automatic and never looked at hydro clutch systems that my friends trucks had, so perhaps my question isn't relevant? Does the hydro system on Dodge/Cummins' have the bleed screw shown in the video? If not then is it truly a sealed unit? SAndreasen's pictures don't show the whole system so perhaps there is a bleed screw?

 

[SAndreasen]

I have no screw anywhere on mine

 

[BigPapa]

No, there’s no bleed screw. Has to be bled as Gary says in the video. Have to work bubbles up to the MC.

 

[SAndreasen]

No, there’s no bleed screw. Has to be bled as Gary says in the video. Have to work bubbles up to the MC.

Gary shows a bleed screw

 

[SAndreasen]

 

[BigPapa]

Sorry, I’m thinking of this video. The bleed procedure is @ 14 minutes.

 

[SAndreasen]

Napa had the whole unit as a prebled assembly

 

[SAndreasen]

That. Video also has a bleed screw

 

[Matt42]

I watched the entire video and found it interesting. Then I visited Perfection's website. They are now a subsidiary of Berkshire-Hathaway. The clutch system parts that would fit my truck are made in CN, which means China.

 

[SAndreasen]

The fact is unless theres a bleed screw how can you bleed the system ? An aftermarket complete assembly isn’t that much money and its prebled ready to go on . I would have tried bleeding mine but I don’t see how to without any bleed screws

 

[GCroyle]

SAndreasen,

Perfection added bleed screws to many of its aluminum body external slave cylinders as an additional tool to aid in bleeding these systems. Key word was AID it's not the total solution. Many times in the videos I use a clear water bottle to illustrate the position of the bubble in the MC and how to coax it out.

1st take your brake bleeding hat off, hang it up and put your JD hat on.

Hold a clear water bottle horizontal (lay it on a table) it is while mounted in truck. Bubble is on the top of the bottle. How do you get that bubble to go DOWN and out thru the cap like it while installed? Position the MC reservoir end up at about a 45 now the bubble goes to the cap end. You can see same by lifting the water bottle under the cap end and as you lift the bubble goes to the cap. And because there are two basic MC designs piston port like older 2nd gen trucks vs tappet valve like 3rd gen and up each gest its own slight twist on technique. Tappet valve type has fluid in and out almost stacked on top of each other, piston port fluid in vs out is NOT stacked and are several inches away from each other.

Now remove the cap, point SC straight down and compress don't do it fast or it'll squirt fluid out. Maybe have someone watch fluid for air bubbles. Let SC extend on it own and it pulls in fluid. Watch video.

Getting hydro's fully bled was our No. tech call topic no question about it. When I was still working I made a complete working Ford Ranger clutch demo stand pedal, full hydros and clutch but I doctored the hydro's so I could add or remove an air bubble and you could SEE the bubble compress and feel how it messed up the hydro system. We used it for training at training/trade shows just about wore it out shipping it around the USA.

Years back I took a Dodge system and gathered the tech call guys and we burped full system proving it had no air in it. Oh yeah we did it IN THE OFFICE ON THE CARPET and didn't spill a drop of DOT 3

This video shows technique and the Jeep video shows same with even more show and tell info.

Gary

 

[Timd32]

SAndreasen,

Perfection added bleed screws to many of its aluminum body external slave cylinders as an additional tool to aid in bleeding these systems. Key word was AID it's not the total solution. Many times in the videos I use a clear water bottle to illustrate the position of the bubble in the MC and how to coax it out.

1st take your brake bleeding hat off, hang it up and put your JD hat on.

Hold a clear water bottle horizontal (lay it on a table) it is while mounted in truck. Bubble is on the top of the bottle. How do you get that bubble to go DOWN and out thru the cap like it while installed? Position the MC reservoir end up at about a 45 now the bubble goes to the cap end. You can see same by lifting the water bottle under the cap end and as you lift the bubble goes to the cap. And because there are two basic MC designs piston port like older 2nd gen trucks vs tappet valve like 3rd gen and up each gest its own slight twist on technique. Tappet valve type has fluid in and out almost stacked on top of each other, piston port fluid in vs out is NOT stacked and are several inches away from each other.

Now remove the cap, point SC straight down and compress don't do it fast or it'll squirt fluid out. Maybe have someone watch fluid for air bubbles. Let SC extend on it own and it pulls in fluid. Watch video.

Getting hydro's fully bled was our No. tech call topic no question about it. When I was still working I made a complete working Ford Ranger clutch demo stand pedal, full hydros and clutch but I doctored the hydro's so I could add or remove an air bubble and you could SEE the bubble compress and feel how it messed up the hydro system. We used it for training at training/trade shows just about wore it out shipping it around the USA.

Years back I took a Dodge system and gathered the tech call guys and we burped full system proving it had no air in it. Oh yeah we did it IN THE OFFICE ON THE CARPET and didn't spill a drop of DOT 3

This video shows technique and the Jeep video shows same with even more show and tell info.

Gary

Very awesome info thanks for sharing.

There is a member of another forum where they are having a tough time getting some manual brakes bled out of a cab over little jeep and they probably have created on air trap as described in that content.

Question: Not to confuse brakes and clutches but I look at those simple manual systems to be very similar.

Could you get an air trap out manually with the limited throw of the MC and even with a bleed screw, I'm thinking the limited throw of the MC as described in the video to be pushing the air bubble back and forth where it would be very hard to get something like that out.

 

[GCroyle]

Tim,

When I took a tech call on hydros one of the first things I did was look at pics of the units to see which MC basic design it was and IF it had an adjustable pushrod (imports were big on that) and only then did I choose my tech hammer(s) of choice.

Folks don't get confused that an adj mater cyl push rod it the answer to all that ails you each design has its designed in requirements and believe me an adjustable pushrod can get you into no mans land in a heart beat if you try to out think it.

There is no one technique that is "IT" but the outcome must be the same get the air out!

Gary

 

[Timd32]

It was a great visual to getting the air out and super simple to envision how it's working.

Thanks.