Clutch won't fully disengage

[CumminsAholic]

Grandpa's truck... 1996 1 ton 2wd 5 speed (undervalved ) CTD, 150k. Yesterday while driving it something happened. I dunno if it was suddenly or what or if it even made any noise. Anyways, the clutch will not fully disengage. If you start the motor with the truck out of gear it won't go into gear. If you start it in L it'll move with the clutch pushed in. If you start it in 1st it'll stay. You can shift thru the gears if you hit the right rpm range, just like if you'd clutchless shift. I checked the fluid level, it's full. There's also pressure on the petal, just like normal. It's like I need to push the clutch in further, but I can't without hitting the floor. What do you guys think it is? Slave cylinder?? I thought that I remembered a discussion where a plastic bushing in there can crack or break and fall out. If so, where is it? I haven't really looked at anything yet, it has a van body on it and won't fit in a 10 foot door and it's snowing outside. Hasn't snowed here for a month, but of course that's how things go.

TIA

Corey

 

[Sled Puller]

Pressure plate.

Mine did that at 36,000, 180 hp. The bolts were broke off or backed out.

Whatever you do, do NOT try to shift without the clutch, the synchros die doing that.



Gene

 

[jrobinson1]

Sounds a little more extreme to what happened to me this past fall. But here my story.



Pilot bearing was destroyed. Last owner replaced clutch but it didn't look like he changed the bearing. 97 stock has a needle bearing I don't know 96 I assume its the same.



I ended up changing the Pilot bearing and input shaft. By no way do I condon driving it because of other possible probs but I did. Sometimes it shifted OK (bearing parts piling in the right spot truck twisted right I don't know). I was out of town working over the weekend and wanted to get to my shop so I checked what I could though that little slot in the bell housing for metal shards... bolts what ever, it was clear. Oil OK, Clutch felt normal and fluid full. Took a chance and put over 400 miles on before pulling it apart. Returned home and a couple commutes. These are Tough trucks!



I lucked out and found a bearing someone had pulled from a clutch kit for a special proj. They say its only available in the kit.



hope this helps,



james

 

[Tardog]

When you say it happened suddenly it reminded me of a clutch problem I had in a GMC. I was at a stop light with the clutch pressed in and all of the sudden the truck tried to go ahead on it's own, was the weirdest, it periodically would do the same thing again. But the clutch still worked 80%. I tore into it and found that one of the fingers had broke off and jammed into the other ones and bent them up, so much that it caused the plate to drag when it was just in the right position to the fork. I'd never heard of this before but reguardless, Check your fluid, look for leaks, check the throw on the fork while some else pushes on the clutch. if all else fails see if you can adjust any thing or extend something to get more throw. Just a few things to check before lay'n on your back and droppen a transmission. good luck

 

[GSchlegel]

CumminsAholic,



I'd say MGM is right.



I was up in the Northwest corner of Nebraska (very close to the middle of No-where) when I lost my pressure plate going through a construction zone in stop and go traffic. Quite a surprise when you push in the clutch and the engine keeps pulling you forward. Had to drive it 450 miles home. At least most of it was on I-80! Real hassle going through small towns and miles of stop and go in construction zones. Got good at clutchless shifting, shifting into neutral prior to stopping, and starting in gear. I worried about the starter, syncros, etc. , but everything is still ok 100,000 miles later.



Gene

 

[Sled Puller]

That is funny- mine quit in State College Pa-- just before I got on to I-80! About 300 miles from home.

Everybody who has a marginal clutch should avoid I-80!LOL



Third REFUSED to be shifted clutchless, it was toast. I drove it for one year after that, with a new clutch, double clutching third, it ground every shift.



Gene

 

[CumminsAholic]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll take a look at it. Next question, how hard is it to replace the pressure plate and where should I get a new one from? I wish I knew as much about trannys as I do about 2 stroke motors. Good thing I have friends that know something.

Corey

 

[Sled Puller]

I have a complete rebuilt Centerforce with an updated disc for $300.

Also have a used throwout bearing, they are $75 new, I'll throw it in for nothing, if yours is trashed and you are on a budget.



Should hold up to 350 hp, no sled pulling.

gene

 

[Garry Verheyden]

Corey,

I just had the same problem until about four days ago when I fixed it. Save your self a lot of hassle and money of replacing the clutch until you check the clutch master cylinder. My truck recently started having the same problems you had, it got so bad that I had to start it in reverse when I wanted to back it up and I had to start it in 1st to go forward. Choice A - buy new clutch($$$)

B- cut hole in the floor and push clutch pedal through (too wet in the cab when it rains) C- check clutch master cylinder (much easier)

Go under the dash and look up to where the piston from the master cylinder attaches to the clutch pedal. You'll see a circlip then a washer. Remove these and inspect the plastic bushing that goes between the shaft and tha pin attatched to the clutch pedal. On my truck it was wearing metal on metal for some time and the eye on the end of the master cylinder shaft was worn 1/4" to an oval shape instaed of round.

If this is the case with you, remove the master cylinder from inside the engine compartment. You'll see a rubber gasket on the firewall. Pry this out and turn the master cylinder counter clockwise 1/4 turn and remove it. I couldn't get mine out, so I put some penetrating oil around the area where the master cyl. meets the firewall and it came out easily the next morning.

I didnt want to spend big bucks on a new master cyl. so I welded the hole smaller and filed it round again with a dremel tool. (you could probably use a chainsaw file, but dremel is much easier) I reinstalled it and the clutch disengaged easier but was still a bit notchy. I pulled the master cyl. out again and used a tiny cut off wheel with the dremel and cut the eye off the master cyl. shaft and welded it 1/4" longer and filed it smooth. I was too lazy to remove the slave cyl. during all this. so I did the welding and filing under the hood of the truck. After installing the master cyl. again the truck shifts smooth as silk ,it disengages about 1-1/2" from the floor just like new. Total cost $3. 08 Canadian!!! for the plastic bushing from Chrysler and about 2 hrs labour. Its worth a try, hope this helps.

Garry.

 

[CumminsAholic]

Thanks for all the info Gene and everyone else. How does the centerforce compare to a stock clutch? Is it as easy to drive, or does it grab really hard? It's my grandpa's truck so you have to take that into consideration. He's leaving for Texas on thursday for a month to 2 months. So I have some time to fix the truck. Problem is I need it to haul cabinets... he gets to go on vacation, I get to keep working. Ah well. Anyways, the other problem is getting it into a shop. It has a van body on it and needs at least a 12' high door to get into. My cousin's dad has a shop fit it, I just dunno how long it can stay there. I'll let you know what I find out and wether or not we need the clutch. It may not be til next week, I have a race this weekend as well as the 2 weekends after that. I have to work on it after work. Thanks again for all the info and the offer on the clutch. It would be nice to have that clutch... . then I could maybe convince him to get a fuel plate.

Corey

 

[CumminsAholic]

Thanks Gary!! That's what I was looking for, an easy fix. I remembered something about that plastic bushing, but didn't know where it was. I'll check it out tomorrow and see how things look up there. Hopefully that's the cause. As nice as it would be to have that centerforce in there it'd be good to save $$. I'll put something inbetween there and see if it disengages. Thanks again for all the info guys.

Corey

 

[Sled Puller]

The Centerforce engaged like stock, but had just a hair more pedal pressure.



Was not a bad clutch, better than stock Dodge replacement, but a lot of guys threw way too much hp at them and just melted them down.

Gene

 

[drawson]

Another possiblity is that the pilot bearing is welded itself to the input shaft. This would cuase the same problems.