Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Cold High idle TSB questions.

[JCyrbok]

I know that this one has been gone over several times in the past but I have to vent.



Had the cold idle TSB done twice, the second time, which was about a month ago, the tech ensured me that he used the scan tool to enable the feature.



So last night it got down to 20deg so I thought that I would leave the truck out to see if it worked. Truck sat outside in the cold for about 12 hours and had not been drive (except backing out of garage) for about 4 hours prior to that.



Went out this morning and fired it up. Grids preheated for about 30sec and my pryo showed 32deg when i got in.



As far as I can tell all the parameters of the TSB were met. Truck idled for about 15secs as the grids ran and then the idle sounded like it was going to increase, it went up maybe 50rpm and no more. This may have been when the grids shut off though, i wasnt watching the alt meter. I let the truck run for about 5 minutes and there was no increase in the rpm.



How long and how gradual is the increase supposed to be?



Also does the above descriped weather (20degs and pyro showing 32deg) sound like it should have kicked in, or does it need to be colder? coolant was defeniantly under 140*



I hate going to the dealer ( for reasons like this) but I would like this feature enabled as my truck can sit for up to 18 hours un plugged when i am at work.



I would imagine that the scan tool they use is pretty expensive, does anyone know where one could be rented from so I could maybe do this myself?



Also is the temp picked up from the outside air temp or the intake air temp? Could one/both of these be bad maybe and fooling the ecm into thinking that it is warmer then it is?



Anything else I should check? How about the DD TTPM, any reason to belive that this may keep it from working?



any help would be appreciated,



Thanks

J-

 

[HeavyHauler]

I don't really have the answers for your questions but I would like to know what I have to do to get a dealer to enable the high idle feature. Is it a TSB that they will cover under warranty or something or do you have to pay out of your pocket to get it done?

 

[JCyrbok]

TSB

Heavy Hauler,



I had it done (both times) under warranty, BUT both times I was at the dealer for other service. I dont know if this is why it was covered or not. I have heard that others have had it covered and some have had to pay. If you have a decent relationship with a dealer service writer then you may be able to get it covered as just the TSB work.



Also i would assume that the "nessecity" of the up date could also come into play. Like my other post says I sometimes have to leave my truck un-plugged for over 18 hours when I'm at work, I also have only a 10 mile drive home, the writer aggreed that this was a good reason to get the TSB done, as it can aid in quicker engine warming, which in turn reduces some chance of problems down the line.



U may try calling a few service depts to see what they say, I have found that there is often a difference in the answers,regardless of the correct answer.



The TSB number is 18-019-01, incase they cant find it.



Also I think I solved my own problem, but whould like to still hear from others who have this TSB and it works.



Thanks

J-



Hope this helps HH.



PS: Heavy Hauler, the print out for the TSB that I have has lists the repair as " reimbursable with in the provisions of the warranty"

 

[DaveN]

I had mine done last fall, I had to be a complete PITA to the dealer that I was working with to get it done. But that's another thread.



After I had it done, it has to be pretty cold (i. e. 20 degrees or less) for a long time for it to kick on. You may not have had it outside long enough for things to completely cool off. Mine is always outside, and I live in a pretty windy area.



I notice that if it gets down to twenty at night it will kick on, but that's assuming it's been out there all night. If your pyro was reading 32, it might not be cold enough... ... I don't know for sure.



Mine tends to run at ilde for a minute or so, then ramp up. You'll know it when it happens. If it's not ramping up after a minute or two then either it's not cold enough or it's not enabled.



Heavy hauler, what I had to do was go in and complain about long heat up times, etc. I asked them politely to do it, they wouldn't do it unless I complained about something. So I would download the TSB, and read about what the typical customer complaint is. Then regurgitate it verbatim, dig in your heels, and be firm.

 

[Max Wedge]

I had the TSB 18-019-01 completed yesterday (11-24-03) by a competent technician and he was even aware that must be enabled through the DBR tool. All of this was completed. This morning it was 25 degrees out side, and the truck set out all night. Grid heater stayed on about 40 seconds then it started and ran normal—No fast idle???? Sure is nice to know it was $$$ well spent.



I believe this is more of a conspiracy than anything, as Diamler is watching all of us that had the “Flash” to see what power MOD’s we are using!!!!! Or maybe when its -20 it will work!



Max Wedge

(Ohio)

 

[Amianthus]

My advice, give up on the High Idle feature. Mine's been flashed and works fine (awesome dealership). But for the hassle, a high idle throttle kicker is the best way to go. Then YOU have the ultimate decision as to when the high idle works or doesn't. Believe me, you will be happier this way.

 

[Max Wedge]

Amianthus--I'm "a" hearin' ya! I just thought that the factory software would be "cool" to use--who knows, it may work fine--it just may not have been cold enough? I have access to a DBR tool, I wounder if there is a way to test it? Anyone have any ideas????



Max

 

[Duluth Diesel]

Had my high idle TSB done last winter. Took two trips and an arguement with the Service Manager. Good thing I know the General Manager. He told the ServiceDork to fix it and shut up.

Anyway, it works great when the conditions are met.

Mine idles normal for about 1 minute, then begins to ramp up in RPMs. If is has been cold enough, it will then shut down 3 of the 6 cylinders (also part of this TSB). It sounds strange, but warms up fast.



The problem I have is this. Once you move the truck and disable the high idle program, it will not run again until the truck sits for like 12 hours. If I drive a few blocks to the gas station before continuing on to work, I wish it would idle up again like the 3rd generation trucks. So to deal with this, I use my ice scraper against my power seat and the pedal. Tap the seat forward, idle faster, tap the seat back, idle slower. Works for when I am out of the truck and want it to run and maintain/gain engine temp.



Lame, but it works, and its cheap.

I've had my overhead factory temp guage read 28 degrees and the program did not run.



Also, if you plug the truck in at night, the increase in manifold temp will disable the high idle program.

 

[Max Wedge]

Duluth Diesel--Thanks



My Overhead said 25 this morning, so I assumed it would work. Maybe I did not let it idle long enough--you said it will idle normal for about 1 minute???? Can't wait till it gets "real" cold around here. I get home about 10:30PM each night and leave at 7:00AM, so maybe the Massive Cummins still has to much heat in the intake! After all I beat this truck like a red-headed-stepchild



Max

 

[pcarlson]

I have this feature and both the high idle and 3cyl work. With that said, the high idle comes on at 32 degrees per the TSB and mine will idle up below 20 degrees on the overhead. The 3 cyl comes on at 15 degrees and mine will shut down when the overhead says its below zero. I believe one of the reading that is being taken is off the IAT which will get warmer air from compression of the turbo and the grid heater. So I have found that it has to be 15-20 degrees colder than what the TSB says.



If mine idles up and I drive down the street to the bank and its cold it will idle up again. Did that during our last cold spell, zero and below.



I would only suggest that the parameters need to be adjusted for the temp readings or the reading need to be taken off the battery temp for these features to work as described in the TSB. Other than that they work, just has to be colder.

 

[outlawram]

Mine works great. both the idle increase and the 3 cylinder shut down. $21 is what dealer charged me. Worked the first time they did it , I did not even have to take it back to them if you can believe that. They never even heard of it before I told them.

 

[Sixpack]

Originally posted by pcarlson

I have this feature and both the high idle and 3cyl work. With that said, the high idle comes on at 32 degrees per the TSB and mine will idle up below 20 degrees on the overhead. The 3 cyl comes on at 15 degrees and mine will shut down when the overhead says its below zero. I believe one of the reading that is being taken is off the IAT which will get warmer air from compression of the turbo and the grid heater. So I have found that it has to be 15-20 degrees colder than what the TSB says.



If mine idles up and I drive down the street to the bank and its cold it will idle up again. Did that during our last cold spell, zero and below.



I would only suggest that the parameters need to be adjusted for the temp readings or the reading need to be taken off the battery temp for these features to work as described in the TSB. Other than that they work, just has to be colder.

Is it possible that a dirty IAT sensor could be the culprit in the temps not matching the TSB? Just a thought as I have an E-brake and a probably not too clean IAT sensor. Phil

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

I thought it was from the IAT also buy Im no longer convinced. Is it possible its from the battery temp sensor?



Ok. my overhead reads higher than the outside temp more often than not. Until I drive and then it cools down SLOWLY. If the overhead says its too warm. The feature does not work. No matter how cold it really is. That said. Both parts of the program have worked for me. Of course it had to be frickin cold because of the false reading. If the overhead is to high I just use a stick and ramp it up to 1500.



I moved my truck this morning. The feature was on when I moved it. It had not gotten all the way to 1200 though. I put it back in park and walked off. When I came back it was at 1200 rpm. So it is possible for it to reactivate.



Believe it or not. The tech got it right the first time. Installed and enabled. I warned him and he said he already knew. I was in for a trusty lift pump under warranty so I figured Id get it while I was there. My fuel mileage is WAY down. Not from this reflash but the dreaded low power flash. Hey on the bright side. I dont have enough power to slip my tc anymore.

 

[Sixpack]

Originally posted by Big_Daddy_T

Is it possible its from the battery temp sensor?

I think you're right about the battery temp sensor. I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

 

[JCyrbok]

OK thanks guys,



I'm guessing that it was not cold enough. I'm heading up north (mich) for turkey day, so I should be able to see if it works. The dealer I had it done at the second time is pretty squared away, I also had a copy of the TSB with the enable steps high lighted and it was pointed out to the service guy so I am actually pretty confident that it was done correctly, just did not know how fast it kicked on.



About how much times does it take to ramp from 800-1200rpm, is it noticable on the Tach or one of those things where u look down and its up to 1200rpm?



Thanks again,



J-

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

You'll definantely see it and hear the change in sound, it's rather quick just a few seconds from 800 to 1200 rpm. Wait until it's cold enough to drop 3 cylinders, that'll wake you right up in the morning even before your first cup of coffee. The first time mine did it it was -22 and the truck wasn't plugged in, it started first try ramped up to 1200 and 3 cylinders cut out as I was walking away from it. I just about soiled myself. Wondered for a second if I should go shut it off. The nice thing was the truck came up to full operating temperature in a matter of minutes just sitting by itself.

 

[David_VT]

Mine is in for the second try on this cold idle after they finish putting in the gold plated steering gear...



First try we never got any rpm increase or 3 cyl idle.



Can anyone tell me exactly what has to be enabled so I can try this before I pickup the truck tomorrow?



With a $2K bill for steering issues, I hope the cold idle TSB works. It will be the only improvement to the truck for all the money spent on repairs...



The DC tech said he 'enabled' 'it'.



IS there just one enable or two?



Thanks,

David

 

[Max Wedge]

Mine has been enabled TWICE and still won't work! I was told by a "Tech" to NOT wait on the "Wait To Start" light to go out or it will not work!!!! Heck it doesn't even want to start w/o letting the heater grid heat up the air---this thing is getting ridiculous.



Max

 

[Duluth Diesel]

Max, the tech is wrong about the wait to start light. I allow mine to preheat until the light goes off, then hit the key. This is all a matter of conditions being met.

Here is the TSB:

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/18-019-01.htm



This lists all conditions that have to be met for both levels of the program to run (high idle and 3 cylinder high idle).



I found that on days cold enough, the conditions can still be met after driving the truck short distances, allowing the program to re-run even after moving the truck. This only works if the conditions on the TSB can still be met - ie: engine being cold enough still.



This is what mine does when not plugged in and it is cold enough:

-Cycle grid heater until light goes out.

-Turn key, start engine.

-Engine idles normal for 30 seconds to a minute on all 6.

-Program initiates, RPMs being ramping up to 1200 and is visible on the tach.

-If cold enough, once 1200 RPM is met, the engine immediately cuts to 3 cylinders. (IF COLD ENOUGH!!!)

-It will run at high idle either until I disable it (move the truck or hit the brake) OR it reaches normal operating temp.



The 3 cylinder cutout is loud. One morning last winter, I kinda goofed up. I have a stick, and of course I have the clutch/starter switch. I cycled the grid, hit the key, and apparently my foot came up enough to let the clutch switch go, so the engine cranked but did not start. It was about -22 that morning. Now I had frozen fuel in clogged injectors. I hit the key again, and she started REALLY rough, first 1, then 2, then three and it idled on 3 by itself. The 4th cylinder had started firing by the time the engine had ramped up to 1200. This is where the program is self-defeating. Running at 1200 RPM on 4 cylinders, the computer switched to its 3-cylinder program. I think it cut out 3 of the 4 that were turning the motor, because it went straight from 1200 RPM rough idle to dead stop 0 RPM. I started it again and put my foot in it until it cleared the injectors out. Not a good thing to make a habit of. If you're gonna hit the key, make sure you do everything you can do to let it start when it is that cold out. If I had clogged more injectors, I would have been going nowhere.



Also, you should not have to pay to have a TSB performed, at least when you're under warranty. It is all in how you complain to the dealer. Don't ask them for the TSB, tell them you have poor winter drivability and cab heat issues, then hand them a copy of the TSB.



My dealer had never heard of this TSB until I handed it to them. Being an informed customer helps a lot.

 

[WTBurke]

I had mine done last year. I was in Bend Oregon in February of this year and I did get to see it work. It ramped up to about 1150 within 60 seconds. However; it was not cold enough to do the 3 cylinder dance. It was nice to see it work and it smoked up the parking lot at the hotel pretty good. I liked it.



William