Cold surging and now won't stay running and won't start

[Jeffrey Kamke]

Hi all,


2001 Ram 2500 CTD automatic 4x4 quadcab swb 306,000 miles
K&N air filter system

I just bought this truck a couple weeks ago and it's been fine until a few days ago. I forgot to plug it in one cold morning 25 degrees or so. Later that day after the truck sat for 3 hours it started surging about 200rpms up and down. Once the engine ran for a few minutes it would stop. It runs perfectly fine after it runs for those few minutes.

Yesterday the truck was surging 3-400 rpms and then stopped after it ran for 4-5 minutes.

This morning I went out and had it plugged in. It started well, ran fine for about 10 seconds and then started surging. It surged up and down once or twice and then on the surge down it stalled.

I got the truck to restart a couple more times, but even with giving it gas up to about 1200-1500 rpms when it started surging down it would stall.

Finally, I can't get it to even restart now.

I have smelled a little diesel fuel smell but haven't investigated that yet. Not sure if that would cause this or not.

Done some reading but couldn't get a good fit for my problem in the threads I've read.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[DavidC]

A vehicle description might help

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

My Apologies, I put it in my signature, does it not show right away?

2001 Ram 2500 CTD automatic 4x4 quadcab swb 306,000 miles
K&N air filter system

 

[DavidC]

Shows now. If you smell diesel you need to find out why. Here is a little more reading for you.

https://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44diagnostichelp.html

Dave

 

[JR]

Any leaks in your fuel system will cause either a no start or an initial start followed by either a rough initial idle or a stall, depending on how much air has been introduced into the fuel lines. I'm assuming you don't have a fuel pressure gauge for your lift pump supply pressure, they are one of the most important upgrades you can do to a VP44 equipped truck. They are invaluable in ensuring proper fuel pressure to the VP as well as diagnosis when problems like this arise.

For the time being, assuming you have no stored codes (check engine light), loosen the line that runs from the fuel filter to the injection pump (loosen it at the injection pump). Crack it finger loose and bump the starter. Don't crank it over, just bump it enough to engage the starter and you should hear a lift pump running. Depending on where yours is it could either be in the fuel tank or mounted on the engine block behind the fuel filter. You should be getting fuel here as the lift pump runs, if not continue to bump the starter and allow the lift pump to cycle until you see steady fuel. This could take one or two to several cycles depending on how air locked things are. Once you get a steady supply of fuel tighten the fitting. Now you'll have to loosen the 19mm fuel injection lines where they go into the head, one or two at a time. Crank the engine over until you see fuel coming out of the lines, stop and tighten fittings, loosen the next and so on until the engine sounds like it wants to catch. Be careful! At this point a healthy injection pump is putting out in excess of 16,000 psi so keep clear while cranking the engine over. Once the engine sounds like it wants to run, shut it off and tighten everything back up. That *should* get you going in the short term but need to find out where the fuel smell is coming from and correct it, the VP44 injection pump is a rotary style pump and does not like to be run out of fuel on a regular basis.

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

Ok thanks for the article.

Here's the codes I got:

PCU
1693

ECU
0237
0217
0234

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

Ok thanks for the article.

Here's the codes I got:

PCU
1693

ECU
0237
0217
0234

 

[JR]

More info on this truck is definitely needed. Any known issues the previous owner passed on? Why do you need to plug it in at night? At 25 degrees it shouldn't even think twice about starting. Are the grid heaters functional? Truck should have full power immediately upon start up, it is good to go easy until warmed up but there should be no hesitation or lack of power what so ever.

P0217 Decreased Engine Performance Due To Engine Overheat Condition Engine overheating. ECM will derate engine performance.

P0234 Turbo Boost Limit Exceeded Problem detected in turbocharger wastegate.

P0237 (M) Map Sensor Voltage Too Low MAP sensor voltage input below the minimum acceptable voltage.


I'd clear the codes and see what comes back, none of those should prevent your truck from starting and running. I'd still wager you've got a fuel related issue. Might be a good idea to pull the fuel filter and check for pluggage and proceed with inspection of fuel lines for leaks and prime the system as described above. Need to get the truck running before the other codes can be effectively diagnosed

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

No specific known history. The guy I bought it from bought it from the previous single owner. Assuming he was honest he said no known issues.

The over heat code is probably from it being low on coolant I would assume?

I don't know for sure if the grid heaters work correctly. I don't hear them click or shut off like on my 04 Cummins that I used to have, but don't know if this older generation is done different.

I'll check out more this week when I get to it and let you know.

Thanks for your input guys!

More info on this truck is definitely needed. Any known issues the previous owner passed on? Why do you need to plug it in at night? At 25 degrees it shouldn't even think twice about starting. Are the grid heaters functional? Truck should have full power immediately upon start up, it is good to go easy until warmed up but there should be no hesitation or lack of power what so ever.

P0217 Decreased Engine Performance Due To Engine Overheat Condition Engine overheating. ECM will derate engine performance.

P0234 Turbo Boost Limit Exceeded Problem detected in turbocharger wastegate.

P0237 (M) Map Sensor Voltage Too Low MAP sensor voltage input below the minimum acceptable voltage.


I'd clear the codes and see what comes back, none of those should prevent your truck from starting and running. I'd still wager you've got a fuel related issue. Might be a good idea to pull the fuel filter and check for pluggage and proceed with inspection of fuel lines for leaks and prime the system as described above. Need to get the truck running before the other codes can be effectively diagnosed

 

[cerberusiam]

With a 1693 code it is a good bet there are companion codes in the FCU which likely means the VP-44 is Tango Uniform. Try to clear and resolve the rest first as it sounds like there are some electrical issues.

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

With a 1693 code it is a good bet there are companion codes in the FCU which likely means the VP-44 is Tango Uniform. Try to clear and resolve the rest first as it sounds like there are some electrical issues.

Yes, there is some ground issues for sure. Headlights are meeting up with high and low beam.

 

[Missouri Mule]

How long have you been using k&n filter? Or did it come with the truck? If there is sand around you ditch the k&n and put a good air filter on it ( like a cummins). K&n let more pass thu but it also lets sand thru. Start stall smell fuel that sure points to fuel supply line with cracks or maybe fuel filter,
Surging in the mag many years ago there was a member had that problem. Dodge did something but did not fix it. They mite of sent it to Cummins shop or diesel shop. They replaced something either the ecm or vp44 which cured the problem.
I have been to their site and how the vp44 works. They also have trouble shooting section. So try www.bluechipdiesel.com

 

[mfurrh55]

On my 01, the vp control module is on the vp and my truck would surge then it would die and not start for hour or 2 , the control module would get hot and cause it to die, I could pour water on it and it would start and run untill it got hot again, then it would surge and die, you can't just replace the module , you have to replace the whole pump, anyway next time it dies pour some water on the control module and see if it will start, if it does that will be the culprit, and you will need a new or rebuilt vp44

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

How long have you been using k&n filter? Or did it come with the truck? If there is sand around you ditch the k&n and put a good air filter on it ( like a cummins). K&n let more pass thu but it also lets sand thru. Start stall smell fuel that sure points to fuel supply line with cracks or maybe fuel filter,
Surging in the mag many years ago there was a member had that problem. Dodge did something but did not fix it. They mite of sent it to Cummins shop or diesel shop. They replaced something either the ecm or vp44 which cured the problem.
I have been to their site and how the vp44 works. They also have trouble shooting section. So try www.bluechipdiesel.com

K&N was installed when I bought the truck. Thanks for the tips. I've worked late each night this week so when I can look at it I'll give an update.

 

[Jeffrey Kamke]

Ok, here's an update.

Took it to a local, trusted diesel shop. So far we've replaced or fixed:

*Airdog fuel pump, fuel supply line, fuel filter housing, and filters--this got it running
*Diagnosed and fixed all main wiring. Replaced multifunction switch on steering column.
*Still showing high low voltage code-- replaced MAP sensor and pigtail, but still have power loss. Sometimes when cold, I have full power for few miles, then no sign it symptom I have no power. Truck runs great, just no top end power. Takes a mile or so to get up to 55-60mph with pedal to the floor. Shop is now saying new ECM? They've tested everything else and this is the problem.

Any help on knowing for sure it's the ECM? Reading I've done on here and other forums I can't find a similar issue discussed with ECM. Before I put more money into this truck I need to know this is the issue.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Do not if you got things straighten out but this web site out bluechipdiesel.com. they have nice web site with a lot of info on the vp44 and ecm, lift pumps.
Just checked their site. They still selling and still helping. Read the trouble shooting page and any thing else that you think will help you out now or the future. If your still stumped after reading you can call and talk to an actual Human.

 

[cerberusiam]

They say ECM yet more often than not it ends up being the VP-44 is toast. Since you have no idea on pump quality that would be the first thing to replace.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I just re-read last your last thread. When You Want to Go Faster DO NOT FLOOR IT!!!
GRADUALLY DEPRESS GO PEDAL. AS YOU PICK UP SPEED YOU CAN DEPRESS IT QUIKER!!!
I do this this with Mule (12 v) and Moose ( 24 v). Believe Me it Works.
Also if you have A BP diesel fuel where you are at use it!

 

[JR]

I agree it sounds more like the VP than the ecm. ESPECIALLY if the lift pump was indeed toast and forcing the VP to pull fuel on its own. I wouldn't let the shop your using have an open line on your check book. Make them show you how they came to this conclusion and ask if the ecm does not fix it if they'll eat the costs . Sounds like they're lost at this point.

If they are open minded ask them to follow the troubleshooting steps here

https://www.bluechipdiesel.com/troubleshooting-1

It would be money well spent on proper diagnosis rather than throwing darts at a parts board.