Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Colt Detective Special

[Mark31]

I guess I started thinking about this because of the 22 mag thread. My wife has her father's Colt Detective Special, chambered for 32 Colt NP (New Police?) ctg. It was loaded with 5 (six chambers) 32 S+W shorts (I presume), which are about 15/16 inches long. The Colt 32 NP is almost identical to the S+W 32 long. The cylinder is 1 9/16 inches long. I never seen a listing for 32 Colt NP ammo. What, if anything, can be fired in it safely? Mark

 

[Sticks]

From what I have gathered, you can shoot either the shorts or longs. I'd take it to a gunsmith to be sure. 4 generations of the Colt Detective Special out there. Yours may be worth more as a collector than a shooter.

 

[HHhuntitall]

The Colt Detective Specials were very well made pistols. If it's in good shape, it's worth quite a bit, upwards of $1000, but the . 32 S&W Long is a good self protection round, IMO. What's your wife's life worth? Just a thought... . if the pistol is in good shape, she can shoot it well, and it's reliable, what other question is there?



As for the chambering, the chamber IS . 32 S&W Long. The only difference when built as the "New Police" was bullet selection. It's a very popular caliber for competition shooters, and even currently offered in some custom match pistols... . The . 32 S&W (short) is compatible. The longer . 32 magnum is not, although the other two will go in that chamber and shoot fine..... . 32 Long COLT is not compatible with any of the above chamberings... ...

 

[Mark31]

The Colt Detective Specials were very well made pistols. If it's in good shape, it's worth quite a bit, upwards of $1000, but the . 32 S&W Long is a good self protection round, IMO. What's your wife's life worth? Just a thought... . if the pistol is in good shape, she can shoot it well, and it's reliable, what other question is there?

As for the chambering, the chamber IS . 32 S&W Long. The only difference when built as the "New Police" was bullet selection. It's a very popular caliber for competition shooters, and even currently offered in some custom match pistols... . The . 32 S&W (short) is compatible. The longer . 32 magnum is not, although the other two will go in that chamber and shoot fine..... . 32 Long COLT is not compatible with any of the above chamberings... ...

Ha!, HHh!! My wife is the 100% exact opposite of the Springfield babe that came to your shop. She doesn't even want to look at a picture of a gun and couldn't shoot a water pistol!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Ha!, HHh!! My wife is the 100% exact opposite of the Springfield babe that came to your shop. She doesn't even want to look at a picture of a gun and couldn't shoot a water pistol!

OUCH!!! :-laf You need to work on that!!!!

 

[DJW]

When in India in a British Army Infantry Battalion, I was issued with a . 38 revolver when I became a No. 1 on a 3 inch mortar, it was stamped, New York Police Special, unsure why it was a Special, as it looked the same size, barrel length, size etc. Anyone know why that revolver was a Special? Later I was given a British . 45 Webley revolver. When one 'Broke' it, the extractor popped up with the spent cartridges, I thought that pretty neat.

 

[Killgore]

DJW, you're dating yourself! That was a . 455 Webley. Hah! You must be older than me.



Ed

 

[Tractorat]

I think DJW is a lot older than HBarlow.

 

[Killgore]

Speaking of HBarlow... where are you Harvey?

 

[DJW]

Ed, I always referred to the Webley as a . 45, as Infantrymen, were were not familiar with side arms, as for us, they were regarded as defensive weapons not offensive ones, and were only trained on the naughty ones. Yes I'm Chucking-On, 88 next birthday, I'm in great shape, (never ever thought I'd get that far), and hopefully last for a long time more. During Infantry training we were shown an American Army film regarding the M1 rifle, it showed tests with the penetrating power of the M1 fired round, we were very much surprised to learn that 4 inches of water would stop it. However the rifle was fired from about 3 feet above a bucket of water, I am not sure if the bullet had got up to speed to allow it to have a greater penetrating power, as I have no knowledge of the science of firearms, however I recently saw a U-Tube demonstration where a Glock pistol fired under water travelled 2 feet, whether that ha any bearing on the matter I'm not sure. Dave.

 

[Killgore]

Dave, congratulations to you on your longevity and obvious clear headedness! I only hope to be as wisely endowed if I make it that long, and I sometimes become amazed that I have made it to 70 considering the foolishness I have subjected myself to. I am of that generation that believe real weapons have wooden stocks not plastic. The M-16 and the M-9 that I carried before I retired from the DOD two years ago were down-right effeminate compared to the M-1 and the . 45. Of course, having women running along and trying to keep up necessitated some kind of compromise. (Yeow, that ought to get some kind of response!)



Forgive me Mark31 for stealing the thread, but old veterans like Dave are icons, to be honored and venerated. And by the way, I carried a Colt Detective Special . 38 for years until I traded it for my first of several bulkier Glocks. (Still wish I had it. ) My wife, an ex-deputy, and my daughter-in-law, a paralegal, carry the Taurus 85CH, an excellent choice for a non-snag weapon in a women's purse or handbag.



Ed

 

[Sticks]

... During Infantry training we were shown an American Army film regarding the M1 rifle, it showed tests with the penetrating power of the M1 fired round, we were very much surprised to learn that 4 inches of water would stop it. However the rifle was fired from about 3 feet above a bucket of water, I am not sure if the bullet had got up to speed to allow it to have a greater penetrating power, as I have no knowledge of the science of firearms...

The fired round starts to loose speed as soon as it leaves the muzzle. Water does an excellent job of slowing the bullet. I've no doubt that people were killed by rifle/MG rounds in the water during beach assaults, but not at the 10 feet under the surface the movies portray. Mythbusters did an episode testing the theory and even a . 50 BMG round was only getting a foot or two into the swimming pool before the round broke apart and was combat ineffective.

 

[Mark31]

Kilgore, the thread had run its starting course, so no apology is needed---let it go where it will. I definitely agree with honoring DJW and all our military. My uncle is 92--career military--fought in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam--still stands inspection straight physically, and his character is the same. He lives on land George Washington owned--near Mt Vernon-- and I think George would be proud for him to be there.

 

[Killgore]

Mark, I'm sure George would be proud to know your uncle was a neighbor and rightly so. Too many of the 'greatest generation' are becoming too few. The world will be a lonelier place and their absence will be truly felt.



Ed

 

[HHhuntitall]

When in India in a British Army Infantry Battalion, I was issued with a . 38 revolver when I became a No. 1 on a 3 inch mortar, it was stamped, New York Police Special, unsure why it was a Special, as it looked the same size, barrel length, size etc. Anyone know why that revolver was a Special? Later I was given a British . 45 Webley revolver. When one 'Broke' it, the extractor popped up with the spent cartridges, I thought that pretty neat.

The "Special" designation came from it being one of the first "modern" (1927) pistols to use a swing out cylinder, and capable to handle higher pressure loads. As the Police Positive Special, they were designed with law enforcement in mind, and the name played to cater to those sales. Many law enforcement officers carried them, just for a simple purpose. They worked, were easily concealed, and had a stellar track record.



The Webley's were a very well made pistol, too. I've had several, including one in . 38 S&W... . In war finish. It was one of only 200 made early in the war, designed to test the . 38 cal effectiveness. The Brits didn't care for the it, as it had much less knock-down power and lethality as the . 455, and was soon dropped. Most . 38s were issued to clerical or officers, I've been told... ...

The fired round starts to loose speed as soon as it leaves the muzzle. Water does an excellent job of slowing the bullet. I've no doubt that people were killed by rifle/MG rounds in the water during beach assaults, but not at the 10 feet under the surface the movies portray. Mythbusters did an episode testing the theory and even a . 50 BMG round was only getting a foot or two into the swimming pool before the round broke apart and was combat ineffective.

Yes, a bullet reaches peak fps at the muzzle, as it exits. The burning gasses in the bore are what accelerate it, and once it exits the bore, the gasses pass around the bullet, escaping into the atmosphere as muzzle blast and flash. The bullet immediately begins to slow down due to air resistance in flight, and lack of propulsion from burning gasses.



All due respect to Myth Busters, they do a great job on most things, and I didn't see the episode you are referring to, but a . 50BMG round, fired at any type of close range, under 300yds, will be more than lethal using penetrating ammo. I'm not sure what ammo they used, but Tungsten or Boron cored AP ammo will penetrate over 10 feet of water, being lethal at close to 7ft or more. Yes, water will slow it down immensely, but it becomes a torpedo with it's kinetic energy and sectional density..... I've found penetrator ammo at over 4 feet depth in dirt berms, with copper jackets fully intact. Common match or hunting ammo, designed to mushroom and transfer energy to surrounding tissue, is designed to come apart, and would give that result in water tests... . Perhaps they are trying to quell public fear of firearms, as firearm owners themselves?

 

[HHhuntitall]

Mark, I'm sure George would be proud to know your uncle was a neighbor and rightly so. Too many of the 'greatest generation' are becoming too few. The world will be a lonelier place and their absence will be truly felt.

Ed

Sadly. And their common sense and knowledge will be lost to future generations... .

 

[DJW]

Killgore, I only fired my revolver one time, and that was during a competition of officers Vs other ranks. When I fired, I held it at arm's length using my right arm, sighted the target, and pulled the trigger right through without first cocking it. Fired the 6 rounds that way, when the contest ended I was told I was the best shot of both parties.

 

[Killgore]

Dave, so much has changed over the years, and continues to change almost daily. As you know, we now shoot two-handed with several different positions or options for the support arm/hand which is suppose to provide more control. Even the courses we have to qualify on have been modified to reflect actual combat conditions, and the FBI course and the one used by the army vary greatly. I've seen several modifications over just the last ten years that reflect that most gun fights in the civilian law enforcement arena occur within a range of about 7-10 feet. Instructors are now teaching the point and shoot concept.



For about ten years I helped teach the Civilian Firearms Indoctrination Course offered by our local Sheriff's Department. This included classroom instruction as well as range time which was offered to the general public as a free public service every three months. My part, besides providing instruction on the range, was to incorporate the NRA's Refuse to be a Victim Seminar into the two-day presentation. It was a very rewarding experience.



I have also enjoyed shooting the FBI Shooter Simulator both with the Sheriff's Department and later with the DOD. The instructor can change the scenerio with the computer and I will tell you that it can get real intense; incident analysis, how well you assess the situation, use of cover, was this a justifiable shoot or not, and shots are recorded and graded, etc. When I left the DOD just over two years ago we were receiving Active Shooter Training. We saw its' application last week in the TSA/LAX incident. We obviously live under some strange intense conditions in our present world but I can assure you that the law enforcement community as well as the military are gearing up with additional training and techniques to minimize the danger. We've come a long way since I use to call myself practicing by slamming away with my Thompson at garbage from the mess decks being thrown over the fantail of my ship. The primary result now is that neither the Thompson nor I are relevant - and I can't hear. Good to hear from you again though. You hang tough and keep the Faith.



Ed

 

[DJW]

The Tommy is a real fun weapon, extremely comfortable and easy to use, and great hitting power, so well balanced. Not all the ones we had, had the Compensator on the end of the barrel, to help control lift and a tendacy to drift to the right, but firing in bursts as taught presented no problems. Not enough TSMGs could be produced during WW2 so the British brought out the Sten, a 9mm automatic, 9mm was chosen so as to take advantage of the enemy's captured ammunition. A lot of bad things have been written against it, but if handled and used in the manner one was trained to do presented no problems. Cost about 7 shillings and 6 pence to make as against 124 pounds for a Tommy, 20 shillings to a pound. 6 pence equals 1/2 shilling.

Our main Infantry weapon was a No. 4, . 303 Lee Enfield, single shot bolt action rifle, still much prized by the Afghans today. Of course in close open combat an automatic is preferred, but the true Afghan warrior does not fight that way.

 

[Killgore]

The . 303 Enfield was an excellent weapon and remains one of the best. I think the Sten was a heck of a concept that as you pointed out could be produced very cheaply out of stamped parts.



I always wondered about the British monetary system and I appreciate that information. My uncle who was married to a Canadian was stationed in London right after WWII for three years and my first-cousin who married a Brit always spoke British and had to translate that into Southern for my benefit. He never explained pounds and shillings and I felt too confused to ask.