Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Come on Guys, Help a girl Out

[Sick Boy]

Alright, I have a problem, my husband is driving me nuts with this pusher pump. So in order to make my life easier I need some GOOD advice. Here's the deal



The truck has a newly installed Carter 15psi pusher, it is running off a relay and wiring harness w/ the stock lift pump. You turn the key both pumps prime for a few seconds, wait to start light goes out and then you crank it. It starts. You go for a quick ride to test-all is fine. Turn the truck off, all you can do is crank away.

Wait a few minutes truck will start right up. The truck is obviously being flooded, when we bypass the carter it will start right up everytime with NO problem. What can be done about this. I have heard 1-use a regulator??/ 2- use an aux switch to turn pump once truck is started/



Isn't there a way to make the pusher pump come on once the truck has started WIthOut using a man. switch.



I know someone has to know the answer to this.

Please help

Thanks,

melyssa

 

[MCummings]

What happens when,, after a test drive,, you turn the key to "run" and wait 5 seconds, then try cranking it?

(Listen for your pusher pump to stop pumping, Plus 3-4 seconds)



It is easy to create a hard start situation when overpressurizing (sp?) the Injection pump on Startup.



Let me know how this turns out.



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Sick Boy]

mcummings

Yeah, we always wait until the pump stops running then an additional 5 seconds and it is still hard to start you just crank away. It does not have to be after a drive examble being @4pm it starts fine @ 4:02 all it does is crank away

We have no idea. We just bypssed the pump back to stock mode it started right up 5 times in a row/ no problems

thanks,

melyssa

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by DieselFreak 2
Yeah, we always wait until the pump stops running then an additional 5 seconds and it is still hard to start you just crank away. It does not have to be after a drive examble being @4pm it starts fine @ 4:02 all it does is crank away
We have no idea. We just bypssed the pump back to stock mode it started right up 5 times in a row/ no problems
thanks,
melyssa

One suggestion might be to wire the pusher to the RUN circuit instead of with the lift pump. This way, it only runs when the key is in the RUN position - when you turn the key to START, the pusher will be de-powered. You might then want to power the pusher through a separate relay.

Fest3er

 

[Ron Bissett]

Seven PSI from the pump should be fine ,the pump will put out 12 to 15 psi at idle and not under 10 at road speed WOT 8to 10 psi under normal conditions . Ron Bissett in Metro Louisville KY:-{}

 

[MCummings]

What fuel presure are you seeing on prime, and on Startup?

 

[EricBu12]

Melyssa,



I am the one using a regulator but it only works when the engine is running. I used a 7# pusher, not a 15#. I also have a Pre-Filter before the pusher and I think that help slow the flow a bit but when it is in the on cycle, I am over 16psi but once the engine is running, the vaccume pump and a spring regulate the PSI to 12-14 all the time no matter what.



<img src=https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=5926&width=2/src img>



This is running very well and it always starts up right away.

 

[fest3er]

This is in response to Melyssa's PMed question as to *how* to wire the pusher to the RUN circuit.

These directions fit a '98, as that's the only service manual I have. Hopefully someone else will point out the differences between the '98 and '01 wiring schemes. This scheme will run a fused circuit from the RUN circuit to the control lead of the pusher pump's power relay.

When you said the pusher is running off a relay, I'm assuming that is a relay you installed for just that purpose. If this is not true, you will need to install such a relay.

According to the '98 SM, dashboard fuses 2, 3, 7 and 18 are powered via the RUN circuit. Probably the safest way to wire the pusher relay control would be to plug in an Add-A-Fuse unit to one of these fuse locations (while ensuring the unit is properly oriented to keep the fuse in the circuit). The unit's 'internal' fuse will perform the job of the original fuse.

The secondary fuse will protect the lead coming from the unit. Connect a length of wire to this lead and feed it through the firewall to the pusher pump's relay. Remove the control lead from the relay, and remove that wire completely - it is no longer needed. Now connect the new wire you just ran from inside the cab to the control lead of the relay.

Now install a 1/2A or 1A fuse in the secondary position of the Add-A-Fuse unit. The control circuit of the relay draws very little current, so you only need a very small fuse.

One this wiring is complete, the pusher pump will run only when the key is in the RUN position. It will not run in the ACC, OFF or START positions.

This is, of course, a moot exercise if you powered the pusher from the OEM lift pump circuit *and* the OEM LP is connected only to the RUN circuit.

Someone with an '01 service manual should be able to verify or adjust this scheme.

Fest3er

 

[MCummings]

Neal,



That sounds fine and dandy, but what about when you need to only roll up the windows? or un-lock the steering wheel, etc.



Just wondering if there is a way to work the pump so that it is on, only when the motor is running, like oil pressure.





Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[MCummings]

Just had a thought,



In my truck I have a kill switch,, this switch has to be activated before the starter will engage.



If you could put a momentary type switch spliced into your power source, or relay trigger, then you could push this button while cranking, thereby, temporarily turning off your pump, and if you don't have a kill switch,, now would be the time you could put one in.



This is just an idea, and the details would have to be worked out,, but it is an idea.



Hope This Helps,,

Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Edward]

Melyssa,



When I had a pusher pump setup on my truck I used fuse number 16 on my 2001 Dodge. You can go to Autozone and buy a fuse doubler, which will allow you to stack two fuses into that circuit. The second fuse is used to create a new power lead out of the doubler. I used that lead to energize a relay that fed my pusher pump. (Only used circuit 16 for control power. Relay fed from battery power lead at under hood fuse panel) Fuse 16 has power while the ignition switch is in the run position but does not have power while the ignition switch is in the start position or while the engine is cranking. This means the pusher pump will not run while you are trying to start the engine. This would allow only the factory lift pump to run as designed until the engine starts. Once the engine starts and you release the key the pusher pump would be energized and both pumps will run. I hope this helps.

Parts list.



Relay.

Fuse doubler

Inline fuse for relay.

Wire and crimp connectors.





Edward

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by MCummings
Just had a thought,

In my truck I have a kill switch,, this switch has to be activated before the starter will engage.

If you could put a momentary type switch spliced into your power source, or relay trigger, then you could push this button while cranking, thereby, temporarily turning off your pump, and if you don't have a kill switch,, now would be the time you could put one in.

This is just an idea, and the details would have to be worked out,, but it is an idea.

Hope This Helps,,
Merrick Cummings Jr

Merrick,

That getting close to the best solution. Possibly the best follows: IIRC, I *think* there is an ENGINE_RUNNING signal from the PCM or ECM. If that could be tapped, then the pusher would be activated only after the engine has started.

But then, the OEM lift pump runs when you turn the key to RUN (to run windows up or down, etc. ), so it shouldn't be a problem if the pusher runs as well.

Fest3er

 

[DLausche]

How about using both the RUN circuit AND the stock lift pump when wiring the relay? Keep the relay energize terminal connected as you have it to the stock lift pump circuit and then connect the load circuit supply to the relay to the fused RUN circuit as described above.



With this wiring, the relay will still be energized when the stock lift pump is energized by the computer, but there will not be any voltage present at the load (or supply) terminals of the relay unless the RUN circuit is also energized.



Another thought:

Does the new pusher pump have a check valve built into it somehow? Does it make sense that it could be building up a high pressure while it is briefly energized before cranking and this high pressure is remaining in the fuel line? Does the stock system have a check valve that would hold pressure to the injector pump? I've also read that too high a pressure to the injector pump while starting will make for hard starts. If it is the new pusher that has a check valve and is holding pressure to the injector pump side, then the wiring scheme I mentioned above probably won't make much difference. In this case, maybe the check valve could be removed or disabled from the new pusher pump.



Just some thoughts from the top -o- my head. Hope you find a solution to your problem.

-Deon

 

[ACoyle]

Use an oil pressure switch to ground the pump, if you have two wires. That way the Pressure switch will not close till you have oil pressure. Therefore, it will not run till the engine is running. If the pump does not have two wires use the oil pressure switch to pick a relay that powers the pump. Easy, simple, effective.



AC