Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Complication removing trans and transfer case for clutch replacement

[KWhitham]

Hello everybody! I have a 2001 W2500, HO, 6 speed, Quad cab, and I am going to be removing the trans and transfer case as a unit for clutch replacement. The complication that I am running into, are the two metallic vacuum lines that are running on the top side of the transmission mounting bracket. These two lines go from the passenger side down over and across the top of the bracket just aft of the forward lip on the bracket. In the process of removing the transmission and sliding it toward the rear and dropping it down, this movement will surely bend up these small vacuum lines. Does anybody have a technique for removing the transmission without damaging the lines, or do you just give them a little bend down to avoid interfering with the transmission? Thanks for the help!

 

[DMcLeod]

I have the same truck as you, and I've been into the clutch a few times. I've always taken the transfer case and transmission out separately, tho. I believe the vacuum lines are attached to the front of the support crossmember, which gets removed. It only takes a couple of minutes to unhook/unbolt and remove the lines. I think they need to come out.

 

[BigPapa]

I would also suggest pulling the TC then the transmission.

 

[KWhitham]

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions. I will take a closer look at the vacuum lines and see if I can break them apart along the frame rails some where. I have read in some of the other threads about removing the trans and TC as a unit, but maybe that would be cumbersome and make the assembly a lot more unstable on the lifting platform.

 

[BDaugherty]

I pull the trans and Tcase together, but it does make it harder. The Tcase keeps the balance point to the side and it barely clears the tunnel when you're lining up the input shaft. It's really personal preference. If it's your first time and you don't have a really good transmission jack, then go ahead and pull the Tcase. Also pull the vacuum lines. If you damage them, you will really kick yourself for the 2 minutes it takes to get them safely out of the way.

Note: Now is a great time to change the rear main seal. The one I buy from Napa comes packaged with the installer.

 

[KWhitham]

Thanks BDaugherty for the tips. My transmission jack is one of those add-ons to a floor jack, so it is not that great a stable platform. Separating the Tcase from the transmission leads to another question, and that is what is the seal between the two. Is it a line of RTV or a special precut seal that I could buy at Napa? My manual does not say anything about what keeps fluid from leaking out. Speaking of fluid, I presume I need to drain the fluid from the Tcase to keep from making a mess when I separate the transmission and the Tcase.

I bought a rear main seal from Napa. It actually has three seals. One is the round rear main seal, and the other two are flat paper type seals that I have no idea where they go and the guy at Napa couldn't say where they go either. Any ideas? Thanks again for your help. I hope to get this job completed this weekend.

 

[Partyat33]

Its just RTV. Taking those both out together with a converted floor jack-- bad idea. Both of those items are heavy and difficult to balance. My . 02

 

[BDaugherty]

If memory serves, there are seals at the transmission output as well and Tcase input. However, if you can't remember when the last time was you changed the oil in the two, now's the time. Also, transfer cases spill easy when the rear driveshaft is removed leaving the slip yoke wide open.

The seal you bought at Napa: you only need the lip seal and installer. Gasket seals the bellhousing adapter to the back of the block and the Oring seals the rear of the cam. Unless you have a leak at either location (unlikely) just do the rear seal. To remove the rear seal, run a drywall screw into one side (through the metal part) and the use a claw hammer to pop the old seal out. Clean the bore up and lube the rear of the crank. Install the seal dry or with just a little soapy water. The most important part is to install it slowly taking great care that it goes in straight.

As for your trans jack setup: Take a couple extra minutes to separate the Tcase. It will make the job easier and if you see that it wasn't necessary then you can leave them together the next time.

Last tip: Make darn sure that you have the flywheel resurfaced and that whoever machines it does it right.

 

[BigPapa]

... lube the rear of the crank. Install the seal dry...

These statements are confusing, at least to me. The seal and the crank should both be dry.



Personally, if it's not leaking, I would leave it alone. Just my $. 02... .

Last tip: Make darn sure that you have the flywheel resurfaced and that whoever machines it does it right.

The flywheel should be ground, not turned.

 

[KWhitham]

Thanks again to all of you who have given of their wisdom and experience. I have purchased a South Bend clutch kit along with a new flywheel. The reason I went with a new versus overhaul of the flywheel is because 1: I am about an hour from anything and 2: I don't know what shape my flywheel is in and 3: I wanted to take advantage of the better roller bearing that South Bend puts in their flywheel versus the factory needle bearing. Peter at South Bend did tell me that the flywheel must be resurfaced via grinding rather than turning and trying to indicate in this flywheel would be a major task in itself.

According to a friend of mine as well as what BigPapa is recommending, is to make sure the rear main seal is installed dry. My friend has gone against the dry recommendation himself and has had to redo a seal replacement because a lubricated seal seems to leak pretty soon after installation. Maybe it has something to do with breaking the seal in? Anyway, the Fel-Pro kit also says to install the seal DRY.

I am going to set up outriggers on the jack adapter to make sure that the trans doesn't tip over. Getting a regular transmission hoist in our area is just about impossible to do, I need to improvise a little on this job.

BDaugherty, I did not follow what you mean when you commented on the "O-ring seals the rear of the cam"? There was no O-ring in my Fel-Pro kit. Do you mean there is an O-ring that is sealing the bell housing to the transmission case?

Again, I wanted to thank all of you for your help, it is very much appreciated.

 

[NIsaacs]

I did my '01 with the transmission/t-case as a unit, be carefull, it is bulky, heavy and dangerous! I think the o-ring seal for the cam/bellhousing is for a newer truck? My '01 did not have one, however they both had a machined surface so I used some RTV because the cam plug had a small seep.



The rear main seal comes with two seal housing gaskets. One is for the older Cummins that has 2 dowel pins for alignment, my '01 used the one without. I could not remove the seal with a screw and small slide hammer so I had to remove the seal housing. If you do and it does not have the dowels, be real careful on install to get it square.



Good luck.



Nick

 

[BDaugherty]

Sorry for not being as specific as I could have been. The outer diameter of the rear seal should be clean and dry. I typically use a little lubriplate assembly grease on the rear of the crank so that the lip seal on the inside diameter of the rear seal does not get damaged. I'm not suggesting you go against the instructions in the box, just telling you how I do it. Right or wrong or maybe just lucky so far.

BigPapa, I wasn't aware that turned and machined meant the same thing. Please forgive my sloppiness with the English language. At least we both agree that grinding the flywheel correctly is critical.
My opinion is that unless the rear seal is nearly new, it's a good idea to change it while it's easy to get to and to prevent any leaks from the old one from contaminating a brand new clutch.

Nlsaacs, that was a good clarification on the gaskets that come with the rear seal. When you take the bellhousing adapter off the rear of the engine (don't do this unless you have to) there is a machine surface where the gasket goes. There is also a machined groove where an Oring seals to the back of the block around the rear of the cam.

 

[BDaugherty]

Sorry for not being as specific as I could have been. The outer diameter of the rear seal should be clean and dry. I typically use a little lubriplate assembly grease on the rear of the crank so that the lip seal on the inside diameter of the rear seal does not get damaged. I'm not suggesting you go against the instructions in the box, just telling you how I do it. Right or wrong or maybe just lucky so far.



BigPapa, I wasn't aware that turned and machined meant the same thing. Please forgive my sloppiness with the English language. At least we both agree that grinding the flywheel correctly is critical.

My opinion is that unless the rear seal is nearly new, it's a good idea to change it while it's easy to get to and to prevent any leaks from the old one from contaminating a brand new clutch.



Nlsaacs, that was a good clarification on the gaskets that come with the rear seal. When you take the bellhousing adapter off the rear of the engine (don't do this unless you have to) there is a machine surface where the gasket goes. There is also a machined groove where an Oring seals to the back of the block around the rear of the cam.

 

[Dieseldemon]

If the instructions say install dry you should install dry as the seal is made of teflon and will leak if greased it is what cummins calls a lay back seal the hotter it gets the tighter it seals

 

[Dieseldemon]

If the instructions say install dry you should install dry as the seal is made of teflon and will leak if greased it is what cummins calls a lay back seal the hotter it gets the tighter it seals Also if you take a punch and move the old seal foward a little and break it loose it will pop right out

 

[NIsaacs]

Also if you take a punch and move the old seal foward a little and break it loose it will pop right out

Good tip and makes sense, thanks.



KW, any updates?



Nick