Computer for a computer hater?

[SRath]

If there is anything I hate as much as buying jewelry, and thankfully my wife could care less about that, it would have to be buying a computer.

No manufacturer even comes close to making a simple, solid, truly user-friendly computer already loaded with the few things I actually need and want -- and nothing else.

I'm told Macs come the closest to being like that, but the pricetag is monumental.

I don't want HP or Microsoft invading my computer every time it boots and changing stuff just to screw with me. I don't want to pay the same people that write viruses the ransom money every 12 months for their anti-virus crap.

I don't want to create and save documents only to find my computer no longer opens them a year later because I didn't pay out the nose to purchase the permanent version of the "trial version" that came on the computer.

And if you start talking GHz and MB and all that gibberish, my eyeballs roll back in my head.

I MUST have a computer, but I hate computers. I don't do spreadsheets and power point presentations. I surf the 'net and look for things and type letters and emails and posts. I like to play with Photoshop occasionally. Being able to watch a dvd is nice when I travel or want to be lulled to sleep. Wireless internet has utterly spoiled me. Scanning hard documents is handy, too. Speed is nice but never what they advertise anyway.

But much beyond any of that is just needless junk to me. I don't want programs that constantly pop up and ask "are you sure you want to do this?" How the heck would I know?!! You're the doggone computer/security/whatever... you shouldn't let me do something that will kill you.

Anyway, you get the idea. Any recommendations? And please: I'm done giving HP a dime of my money for their poorly designed sure-to-overheat junk laptops.

BTW: I'm on my kid's old laptop (which has proven to be much more durable than mine ever was) because my junk HP committed suicide for the second time in 4 months this past week -- taking everything with it, of course. It will make a fine Glock target now.

 

[guldam]

Sometimes you get what you paid for and sometimes you don't. Buy a MacBook or MacBook Air. This is quality hardware and operating system that is two steps of anything Microsoft sells. I use both machines every single day in a software development environment. And I chose to use my own Mac when I need to get stuff done.



I have not run anti virus software on my Mac in over 15 years and have never gotten a virus. Can't say the same about my windows machines.



GulDam

 

[fest3er]

Well, I'm going to make your eyes glaze over anyway. Can't be helped.

Go to your local computer store. They should have used computers for sale. Find a used Dell that has specs close to the following:

• 1-3 years old
• Intel dual-core P4 (NOT Celeron!) or AMD Athlon X2
• 1. 5-2 GHz CPU with 512KB-1MB cache
• 2 GB RAM
• 30-50GB hard drive
• CD/DVD burner

Tell them you hate computers and this is basically what you need. Ask them to install Debian Squeeze Gnu/Linux (desktop packages) on it for you.

At your fingertips, you will have:

• No viruses or trojans
• All free software
• Open Office (documents, spreadsheet, etc. ; can read/write MS Office formats)
• GIMP (image processing)
• your choice of email interfaces/programs (Mozilla/KDE, etc. )
• SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy); works with many scanners, especially Epson
• GNUCash (double-entry bookkeeping)
• several web browsers (Firefox is renamed Iceweasel for copyright/trademark purposes)
• thousands of other programs easily accessible and installable

Or if you want a new computer, go to Dell's web site and find something with similar specs, then have your local computer store (or your sons) download and install Debian on it. Then use the Winder's CDs/DVDs for target practice. (Don't buy a Dell from BestBuy or Sam's or some such; they typically order large quantities of customized systems from Dell/HP/Acer that are 'cost reduced'. )

I've been running the latest Debian (Squeeze) on my desktop for a few weeks now. The only 'pop-up' I've seen is the system letting me know when Debian have made security fixes and other software updates available. I've *only* used Linux on my desktop for at least 8 years now. Other than vector graphics (requiring Adobe Illustrator on Winders), open source software does everything I need to do: image processing, documents, web browsing, email, motorsports rulebook publishing, etc. And open source vector graphics packages are finally maturing to the point of being usable.

It ain't Winders, so you'll have some learning to do. It ain't Winders, so it'll be far less aggravating in the long run.

 

[jgillott]

I have been a PC user since day one of my computer experience. The MacBook that I use at work that has completely changed my outlook on personal computers. I've been using it at least 5 years and I don't think I've ever had to restart the thing. No bugs, problems, etc. Just stone reliable running 6-7 programs at a time. In the same time frame, I have owned several windows based machines at home that have been nothing but trouble. I will spend the money for a Mac next time around for myself.

 

[seafish]

For ease of use, reliabilty, non-bugginess, as well as ease of learning how to use it, there is NOTHING like a new Apple desktop or laptop computer with their latest OS. If you are having trouble doing something, you can literally type in your question in the help window, and the computer will guide you through the process of what you need to know to keep going. Also, be sure to buy the 3 year AppleCare program, as you will be able to call them and get help for ANY problem that you might experience... I say "might" because it is unlikely that you will experience any, but as a just in case scenario, AppleCare offers exemplary customer service and tech support. I have been using Apple Computers for 15 years now and they simply offer a superior user experience, particularly for the non-tech savvy. My . 02 !!

 

[CRuth]

Apples have the same problems any computer does. My brother worked for apple in the rework department. They stayed plenty busy.



And as they get more and more popular, the bad guys have noticed and are now targeting those too. Insane not to run av software on anything.



Ease of use? Maybe if you start with one. I've been pc too long. Put a mac in front of me and I can't make it do anything. Plus, what are your friends using? You know, the ones that do free tech support you. Helps to use what your buddies and coworkers use.

 

[sarj]

I switched over to a desktop iMAC a few years back Scott. If you just want to use it, and don't want to think about it, I couldn't recommend anything better. Save your money for it, it will be worth losing windows. I have four windows laptops for various dedicated uses, along with one windows desktop I use for finances. 99% of my time is on the iMAC, and I'm trying to rationalize a Macbook/pro, but I just can't do it.



The only thing a MAC doesn't do better & easier is financial stuff. Hopefully that day is coming soon, but Quicken & Quickbooks for MAC is garbage. Everything else is easier on an iMAC. My woman loves hers, and there isn't anyone anymore computer illiterate than her. E-mail, internet, & photos is all she does, and I don't spend any time helping her now that we moved over to MAC's. If you knew her, that alone would sell you on saving & spending the extra for the Apple line.



The only thing that will hurt you on a MAC, is specialty software for proprietary stuff. Few people deal with that, but that's why I have all the dedicated windows laptops. Everything else is there for you. If I had to have one personal laptop, it would be a MacBook Pro. The desk machine I already have, and it's been very good to me.

 

[fest3er]

Oh, yeah. I forgot about GNUCash (double-entry bookkeeping, another free program). Been using it for years just to hold my checkbook ledger, even though it can do a *lot* more.

 

[NIsaacs]

Well SRath... . you asked Now decipher all that assistance:-laf



I am with you, I can't even post a link!



Nick

 

[SRath]

This is all helpful and supports what even the pc techno gurus I have met and who understand my limitations and intolerance have recommended: buy a Mac and never look back.



I am currently keeping an eye on the local Craig's List for an affordable Mac, but I really don't know what model(s) to look for and am beginning to understand that for me, the term "affordable Mac" is an oxymoron. I do know that some of their very small screen laptops would probably not be for me. I would want at least a 15 inch screen. Beyond that, I have no idea what to look for or avoid.



It is amazing what kind of prices used Mac's seem to bring. When i see used laptops being advertised as "bargains" for $1000 to $1500 it scares me.



My mom and I paid $6 a head to check out a computer and electronics sales expo at the local fairgrounds yesterday. She is in her 70's but actually likes computers and is far more proficient in their use than I am. They were advertising laptops "as low as $149". But what a waste of $12... Nothing but "refurbished" stuff, mostly all Dells, being sold by fast-talking folks from Berkley California. It was pretty clear to me that there would not be much after-the-sale support there once their traveling snake oil roadshow hits the highway for the next hicksville stop... But that really isn't any different than Best Buy when you think about it.



You could get wireless for $149. You could get dvd capability for $149. But those two features together jumped the used computer price to $250 and up. There are much better deals on used computers locally on Craigs List.



Dollars are tight right now, so on one hand a really really cheap used "throwaway" pc is tempting. I figure it will self-destruct all too soon just the same as a brand new one, but will be less infuriating when it does.



On the other hand, a really solid and simple to use Mac appeals to me because once I learn how to use any computer and get used to it, I don't want to change, upgrade, or do things differently. As long as I can do the simpleton tasks I use a computer for, I'm happy. Ignorance is truly bliss as far as needing the latest-greatest super-duper computer with applications and capabilities I don't need, understand, or care about. I have never even played a single video game on any computer I have ever owned. Don't care to. I didn't even know my cell phone could do that until I caught my kids playing games on mine. For me, a cell phone just needs to ring real loud and get good reception; nothing more. But there exists no such phone. they do everything else under the sun (very poorly), but never ring loud or get good reception.



Anyway, I still find computers to be made the same way as cell phones: too much junk to go wrong and not enough "simple and reliable". Maybe a mac will someday change my view. Now I need to start researching specific Macs.

 

[guldam]

I bought a second generation 15" MacBook Pro with a Intel Core 2 Duo 2. 33 GHz back in 2006. I've used this computer daily on my commute, and at work, and at home. I burn up a battery every year and half since I go through so many discharge/charge cycles. I just replaced the hard drive with a much larger drive. It's a standard 2. 5 hard drive available from any computer store. Same with the ram. I keep up with the Mac OS updates, and the last big one actually gave me back almost a gig of space!

I run VMWare Fusion with Windows XP for those times when I need to test my code on IE6,7,8. So, you can actually have the best of both worlds.

iPad
iBook
MacBook Pro
MacBook Air

An alternative would be to get an iPad for surfing, emailing, etc. You can get a separate keyboard. Battery lasts a long time!

If you want to edit movies, etc then perhaps a Mac is better. You get an awful lot of very powerful and elegant software for free with a Mac.

GulDam

 

[seafish]

Pretty much ANY computer that you buy will be more or less obsolete in 5 years more or less, due to technological and memory advances, particularly with laptops that have a harder life and run hotter then a desktop. With that in mind, my advice is to simply buy the fastest mac laptop or desktop that you can afford at the time, with the most system memory (variations of RAM) and the largest hard drive that you can afford. If you do NOT need portability, the desktop WILL give you alonger useful life. Don't forget to leave some money for a secondary back-up hard drive (Apples Time Machine interfaces flawlessly with any newer Apple computer and performs your back-ups automatically once you set the initial configuration).



As an example, when I bought our iMac laptop 4 years ago, it had had a 300 GB hard drive that was 3 time larger then the one I had before that, another iMac. Now with my wife's music collection and family photo collection on it, it is 90% full. It is time for me to upgrade to a larger hard drive, or simply use an external / removable hard drive ro store alot of that is on the computer now. I NEVER expected to have to do this 4 years ago, but more and more info is being digitized and transfered by computers, so this is now simply a fact of life if you use computers!!



Buying used MIGHT be OK, but I would be sceptical of buying a used laptop, again for the reason that they are simply not built for longevity and are more physically abused then a desktop. Don't buy a used syetm that is more then 2 years old or it will simply be obsolescent sooner !!



If you can afford it,do buy new, and if not maybe only by a computer that has been refurbished from Apple.com, which will still come with an AppleCare warranty. Definitely think about buying the extended applecare warranty as I mentioned ealier as you can get ALL of the help you need with the system for 3 years from the date of purchase. By then you'll know evrything you need to know about it. Apple also offers in-store classes that teach you how to use the computer to its and your fullest potential.

 

[CRuth]

Sounds like you need a Jitterbug Cell Phone - brought to you by firstSTREET

 

[SRath]

The phone itself sounds like what I want, but I don't like their plans and rates.

As for the computer, I will start looking and saving for a Macbook, and learn what I can about the various models and features in the meantime.

After a quick internet search, I learned that my dead HP dv6000 series is probably THE worst piece of crap ever foisted upon consumers. Even more so because it has Vista. My gosh!! Even the HP company website is page after page of extremely unhappy customers who have suffered the same exact breakdown that mine has twice now. It is an extremely poor design, lousy processor, and the only thing worse has been HP's lack of customer support with overwhelming numbers of people reporting nightmarish experiences with them.

HP did a very limited recall but seems to find exclusionary excuses for most claims.

The upside is American ingenuity. There are dozens and dozens of youtube videos showing various methods devised to "reflow" or "reball" the motherboard connections that desolder themselves and other videos showing how to better alleviate the heat buildup caused by poor design that causes the desoldering.

Reflow techniques range from sophisticated infrared equipment designed to do it, to popular heat guns like the one I have in my shop. Some folks even use their wife's oven. The success rate is fairly high, and I have nothing to lose, but the problem usually just reoccurs, like mine and so many others have. My biggest worry is the fact that mine already did this once and I paid a guy to fix it. He did, but it only lasted 4 months before doing the exact thing again.

Reading what some of the commercial outfits that you can send your motherboard to and have this done have to say, it sounds like the success rate drops dramatically if it has already been done before.

So I went on ebay and can find new motherboards as low as $75 or so, and supposedly refurbished ones a bit cheaper. There are also tons of really cheap "as is" motherboards which I will safely assume are junk like mine.

Still, with absolutely nothing to lose, I think I will try the heatgun technique and add the copper shims to hold the video card and processor tightly against the heatsinks so they can better conduct the heat away. I will remove and disassemble and thoroughly clean my undoubtedly clogged fan (it was noisy) and drill a bunch more air holes in the bottom case, too.

If everything fails, I can always make some permanent air holes with my . 40 cal Glock.

I will NEVER buy another stinkin' thing that says HP on it! From all the bad customer relations and experiences I found in one quick search just because of this one model and one recurring widespread problem, I'm surprised they are still in business. They certainly shouldn't be.

 

[Missouri Mule]

NIsaacs, to post a link it is just like posting an address such as tdr1.com with a www.in front of it.

Copy the address (on top of page where it says address) then paste it on your "reply".

When I find something I want to rember or think mite help out another member

I copy the address and paste on Micro Soft Word. When I need it I go to word and copy then paste in the address place or on the reply (especially now that I have more then 2 GB of drive. With 250 GB I actually have folder for just TDR. ) When I post a link I make sure it works.

 

[AMink]

I love my iMac, the all-in-one hard drive/screen. It's about 3 years old now I think and I've never had an issue. The newer ones are about the same price I paid but faster with more storage. I don't think internal storage is that big a deal anymore seeing how you can get a terabyte external drive for around $100. The cool thing about that is you can keep all your photos/docs/etc on that and just unhook it and put it in a safe or take it with you when you leave for any length of time. The only "protection" I have is via my email account. It used to cost a lot every year to get Mcaffee or Norton for my PC, and I still ended up with a computer killing virus that nothing could get rid of. I ended up reinstalling Windows and now use that PC only for internet use. It runs fast and if anything happens, I can reinstall again. Or use it as an anchor. The Macs are pricey but once you get used to them, they are great.

 

[SRath]

What do you guys think of something like this? PowerMac G4 w/wireless & 17" LCD

It isn't a laptop, but the price is low. And just exactly what point is there in having a wireless desktop? Unless you don't have a hard line to the room you use it in. Its not like you can sit in your comfy recliner and use it. Or could I somehow. . ?

Or maybe this one? Apple iBook G3--Runs Great, Extra Battery

It has a dinky screen but is by far the cheapest mac laptop I have seen since I started to look. i have no idea what is really outdated and what isn't. Which brings up a really dumb question: Is there a difference between the Apple line and the Macs?

 

[guldam]

Too old, and the G4 processor is now obsolete. Apple is no longer providing OS updates for this processor.



You'd be better off to look for a Mac that has an Intel Processor.



You could get a refurb MacBook for $849. Still has full warranty.



GulDam

What do you guys think of something like this? PowerMac G4 w/wireless & 17" LCD



It isn't a laptop, but the price is low. And just exactly what point is there in having a wireless desktop? Unless you don't have a hard line to the room you use it in. Its not like you can sit in your comfy recliner and use it. Or could I somehow. . ?



Or maybe this one? Apple iBook G3--Runs Great, Extra Battery



It has a dinky screen but is by far the cheapest mac laptop I have seen since I started to look. i have no idea what is really outdated and what isn't. Which brings up a really dumb question: Is there a difference between the Apple line and the Macs?

 

[rbattelle]

Tell them you hate computers and this is basically what you need. Ask them to install Debian Squeeze Gnu/Linux (desktop packages) on it for you.



It ain't Winders, so you'll have some learning to do. It ain't Winders, so it'll be far less aggravating in the long run.

Neal, remember this advice you gave me way back in 2009? Excellent advice.



Well, here I am 1. 5 years later still running Debian (now using the testing repositories ever since the upgrade to Squeeze last month). I have to say, I genuinely enjoy Linux - it takes me back to the early days when you had to know something to work a computer but the payback for a little knowledge is tremendous flexibility and customizability.



With each passing month I find less use for Windows. However, I would like to respectfully disagree with your advice to SRath. (It looks like he's going to Mac anyway, so I figure we can have a little argument about Linux and nobody will notice).



Linux is wonderful - it's cheap and considerably more capable (and probably more secure) than Windows or Mac. But in exchange for it's free-ness, there are some frustrations to be had, specifically in the area of making hardware work properly with it (scanners, for instance).



Most hardware uses proprietary drivers to operate with Mac and Windows. Those proprietary drivers are often not available for Linux, so people write free drivers. These sometimes don't work "out of the box", so you have to learn enough to be able to go tweaking in configuration files (text) to make them work. It took me several hours of work to get my scanner to play nice with Linux, for instance.



This is not a problem for someone who likes computers and, at least in some ways, enjoys the challenge of fixing a problem. But SRath has made it extremely clear that he hates computers - he wants an appliance that he turns on and it works without any tweaking whatsoever.



Frankly, I question whether such a computer exists - I don't believe Apple products are without their own issues, and we all know what crapware Windows is.



In the long run, Linux is very nice to run, but in my opinion you really have to know what you're doing. You have to know how to operate the command line (for those times when you screw up a configuration setting and suddenly your desktop manager won't run, if nothing else). You have to be willing to take some time learning to tweak configuration files, and maybe even write some bash scripts (gasp!).



I just don't think SRath is the type to want to do that, and I'd hate to have him try it for a week, get frustrated, and decide Linux is useless. Linux develops and evolves MUCH MUCH faster than either Windows or Mac, and it's constantly getting easier to use (less need to know configuration files and scripting, for instance). But when an incompatibility or other problem pops up, you still need to be willing to take some time to work your way through it. Linux moves so fast that I'm often frustrated that the documentation and help on the internet is too outdated!



Honestly, the best thing for him, in my opinion, would be a Linux Debian (or possibly Ubuntu-like) system being administered by someone else. That way he gets dirt-cheap computing and none of the hassle of administration.



One last comment: I actually hate computers, too. But when I started using Linux I discovered that the vast majority of my hatred for them is because of Windows. Now that I use Linux (at home), I don't hate this thing anymore. My work computer (Vista), on the other hand, I want to drop kick over a dam.



-Ryan

 

[SRath]

Too old, and the G4 processor is now obsolete. Apple is no longer providing OS updates for this processor.

You'd be better off to look for a Mac that has an Intel Processor.

You could get a refurb MacBook for $849. Still has full warranty.

GulDam

$849? Refurbished?!! Yikes!! Now I know why I can't find an affordable one. Heck, for less than 50% more there is a 12v Cummins with 135k miles on it for sale nearby... lots more smiles per dollar! And it speaks my analog language, is truly user-friendly, and will last and last and last without ever becoming obsolete.

Sticker shock aside, I appreciate the guidance, guldam. I do want to get a Mac and I have found some info on trying to restore the overheated motherboard on this pos HP that I own. Maybe with the cooling upgrades I also located info on how to do, it might last until I can afford a Mac.

probably not...