2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Conflicting info about '02 front axle

[SRath]

I have found sources that say the front axle in an '02 2500/3500 Cummins dodge is a Dana 60 without the vacuum disconnect (CAD).

I have found sources that say '02 front axles without CAD were AAM axles only.

Can anyone here confirm if and when Dodge put Dana 60 axles under their 2nd gen trucks without CAD?

 

[MVieira]

SRath, I have a late build 2002 truck that I bought in July of 2002. It has a solid Dana 60 axle with no CAD. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that Dodge quit installing the inner axle disconnects and CAD's on the last half year of build on the '02 trucks. Then I think the '03 third Gen. trucks started getting the AAM front axles. I actually rather have the solid Dana 60 over the ones with the CAD window cut into them and the 2 piece long axle with the disconnect collar. Yeah I spent some money on the Dynatrac Free-spin kit, 35 spline inner axles, and Trutrac LS differential, but I feel I have a bullet proof unit now.
Regards, Mike.

 

[David411]

AAM were not available on second gen trucks!

 

[jeepit]

Dana 60 here... ...

 

[ata]

MVieira, is right sometime in late 2002 the CAD was dropped from the D-60. In 2003 3rd Gen's got the new AAM axles front and rear.

 

[Gene Heck]

MVieira and ATA are both right. I had an early 2002 and it had CAD. I think that the CAD was dropped around late Jan. or early Feb. 2002 for the rest of that model year. AAMs were a 2003 thing.



Gene

 

[Jeff Knight]

I have a late Jan 02 built truck without the CAD. . Jeff

 

[SRath]

So without much doubt, if I find an '02 2500/3500 front axle with no CAD, it would have to be a dana and not an AAM? I have a line on one, (out of an '02 with no CAD) but have not seen it and I'm not sure the guy knows a dana from an AAM. I don't want to drive that far and find it is an AAM.



I appreciate all the input, guys.

 

[fest3er]

So without much doubt, if I find an '02 2500/3500 front axle with no CAD, it would have to be a dana and not an AAM? I have a line on one, (out of an '02 with no CAD) but have not seen it and I'm not sure the guy knows a dana from an AAM. I don't want to drive that far and find it is an AAM.

I appreciate all the input, guys.

Correct. DC switched from Dana to AAM for the 3rd 3/4 and 1 tons for the 2003 model year.

(Technically, as I understand, they dropped Dana because the Dana axles used in Jeeps were too noisy and Dana wouldn't change. The real trouble was that Jeeps became quieter, allowing the axle noise to become more noticeable and annoying to car drivers. I believe the DC-wide change occurred for the '03 model year. )

 

[JMcCoy]

The change to AAM was with the introduction of the "new" 3rd gen model. I was looking to change over to the '02, non-CAD, dana 60. I heard they had issues with the ball joints. I didn't want to trade one problem for another. I temperarily have a Posi-loc. It works great. I believe you can install the solid axle into the CAD housing. The CAD housing is still a weak point, but unless you are a rock crawler (our diesel rams make horrible rock crawlers) you should have no problems. Good luck.

 

[SRath]

I worry about that CAD housing and it's weakening effect on the housing due to the combined weight of the Cummins (and soon an NV5600 and NP205) and the huge load of the 900+lb Boss V plow hanging four feet past the front bumper.



I know the CAD housing causes the weight rating of the axle to be derated slightly from a non-CAD Dana 60. The puny axle shafts and balljoints hurt, too.



That plow is a lot of extra weight and stress on the front axle even though it is only on for limited periods of time. But those are the times when I use the truck the hardest.



Since I intend to install beefy 35-spline shafts and live-bearing hubs with lockouts, I thought it would be worthwhile to find a non-CAD axle to do it all to. But to find an axle used only for 1/2 of one model year? That's going to be mighty tough to do, I think...



I suppose I could always try to fabricate an axle truss, but those just kill ground clearance.



I brought this up with my brother and he says he has one under his '02... Wonder if he'd miss it. . ?

 

[24Vpirate]

build date on my 02 dec has CAD. you shouldnt use the non CAD shaft on a CAD diff. reason is no place to install a seal in the tube like on a non CAD diff. CAD diff is sealed at the CAD . non CAD is sealed at the diff. so there is no seal surface on your non CAD shaft where it would need to be to do it.

 

[JMcCoy]

I believe that is incorrect. It will seal the same as it did before. It just won't have the fork and collar. How do you explain the dynatrac free spin kits with the CAD elimination shafts.



I would like to know if upgraded ball joints correct the problem they had in the '01 and '02 dana 60's. That is the only reason I didn't swap my 3. 55 dana out with someone with 4. 10 gears.

 

[24Vpirate]

I believe that is incorrect. It will seal the same as it did before. It just won't have the fork and collar. How do you explain the dynatrac free spin kits with the CAD elimination shafts.



I would like to no if upgraded ball joints correct the problem they had in the '01 and '02 dana 60's. That is the only reason I didn't swap my 3. 55 dana out with someone with 4. 10 gears.

i would say that yea buy a 450 $ shaft made with the seal surface in the correct position, IE the CAD seal spot would take care of that problem. a stock 100 dollar shaft wont.

 

[JMcCoy]

You are correct. Not cheap axles. I wonder how much it would cost to have new tube installed. Of course, if your cutting brackets and spindles, it would be the time to install ford spindles. This would give me the HD brake calipers I so long for. DREAM, DREAM, DREAM. Sorry, I dazed off for a second. Maybe an axle fabricator out there could give us a clue.

 

[SRath]

I don't think even the non-CAD '02 Dana 60's under these Dodges have "real" Dana 60-sized axle shafts, which are beefy 1. 5" 35-spline shafts as found in Chevy Dana 60's (inner only; factory outers are 30-spline but are easily upgraded to 35-spline).



I know the Dodge CAD axles have Dana 44-sized shafts @1. 25" in diameter (can you say: "wimpy, wimpy, wimpy"?). Throw in a sliding collar about an inch wide joining a 2-piece shaft together, and you have a recipe for disaster with aggressive tires and Cummins torque. So I would not waste the effort or time or money for factory Dodge shafts.



EMS has Moser 35-spline 4340 Moly 1. 5" shafts for these axles for @$550. According to Texis, who recently installed them, they have unique tubular seals for both sides that fit in the axle tubes to handle the sealing chores. I believe those shafts and seals would work equally well in the CAD or non-CAD Dodge Dana 60'.



BTW: What is the story on the '01 and '02 balljoints, JMcCoy? Aren't they the same as all the previous years? Why would they be different?



I was absolutely stunned to see Dana actually used balljoints on that new Ford Dana Super 60 front axle! Incredible! All that beef and they ruined it with balljoints... How stupid... What are these injuneers thinking of these days?

 

[JMcCoy]

Here is a link to just one conversation about the balljoint differences. I'll try to find the information on what actual problems they have.



Dana 60 parts interchangeability

 

[SRath]

Glad to read I'm on the right track with my current axle. I could not find where anyone else had done this before, so this is a good read. I have so far managed to acquire Ford outer knuckles, spindles, and 35-spline Warn lockouts.

i know the Ford and dodge balljoints on those years are the same, and the distance between them is the same, so I figured the Ford live-bearing/lockout spindles and knuckles should mount right up to my '96 Dodge Dana 60. It is disappointing to hear the Dodge dana 60' changed, though.

Still, if I were to go one step beyong the Ford setup, it would be with an '02 non-CAD Dodge Dana 60, cut off the inner C's, and replace them and everything from them out with Chevy Dana 60 kingpin components.

For now, just to get lockouts and live-bearings, I still need Ford brake calipers/hardware/pads (and to figure out what will be needed to connect the Dodge brake hoses to the Ford calipers). I need the correct rotors and hubs, too.

I'll be going with aftermarket 35-spline inner and outer chromoly shafts, too.

I know virtually nothing about Ford Dana 60 parts except that they changed things quite often as Ford has always been prone to do.

 

[JMcCoy]

One thing I do know, is that the Ford high pinion Dana 60 is the Holy Grail of front axles. Good luck finding one though.

 

[SRath]

I don't need a Ford axle, high pinion or otherwise. Unless it would be just to strip the outer knuckles and everything else from there on out off them.

The idea is one step beyond what Dynatrac and EMS does. Instead of retaining the 4-bolt Dodge outer knuckle and relying on custom-machined or drilled spindles, hubs, etc. ; I will be using factory Dana 5-bolt knuckles, spindles, hubs, etc. No custom parts, which is great if something ever broke. And it will be stronger than their conversions.