Considering a 4th Gen

[Silver Tex]

Good Morning,
I am contemplating selling my ‘06 2500 4x4 manual to my son and purchasing a used 4th Gen. I would like any feedback from this community on the why’s and why not’s. An alternative, is locate another ‘07 or older (which is not real easy).

I have been contemplating ‘08 to ‘12 model years - 100K - 150K mileage range. I am looking at upgrading to a 3500. Have not settled on SRW or DRW at the point. We pull a 34’ 5ver and I like the potential for DRW stability, which is basically all our truck is and would be used for.

I have done a fair amount of research and have identified varying opinions, which I know I’ll get here as well due to individual experience, about the older Aisin transmission and the Chrysler transmission’s. Also, that there is perhaps a difference between the UREA systems and the DEF system. Maybe get some decision points regarding why or why not from this communities perspectives which I can then vet out myself.

I have and continue to appreciate the feedback, input, and cautions that this community has offered over the years. I have spent most of my time in the 3rd Gen forum and look forward to the perspectives of those who post here and may venture over from ‘other gen” forums. Maybe there are those who have both trucks or who have recently made an upgrade/update.

Thanks much,
Scott.

 

[AH64ID]

Are you looking at a 3500 C&C, the sub-forum you posted in, or a 3500 pickup?

 

[lpennock]

You do realize a 7-9 is still a third gen? You would need to be 10 or newer for a 4th gen.
8-12 the Aisin was a AS68RC and was only available in a Chassis Cab. If you have to rebuild it, it will be more expensive and less strong than the 68RSC for the same money. The tuning with the AS68RC also locks out 6th gear in Tow/Haul (at least my 08 did).
The 8-12 also use much more EGR than the later trucks as they don't have DEF to control the NOX emissions.

 

[cerberusiam]

Can you and would you delete? Are you looking for just a truck or something specific? Quad cab vs crew cab vs mega cab? Laramie with a lot of bells and whistles or just a plain SLT?

Even if you went with a 2012 you are still dealing with a 8-9 year old truck and the aging problems. You have to really ask yourself how far you want to go to get a solid dependable truck and how much $$ and effort you would put into it, or, is the dependability not a major factor?

 

[Silver Tex]

Hi All!
OK. So a little house cleaning in order.
No, I do not want a C&C, realized my error after posting, and have not figured out how to edit so I may delete and start over.

RE: I am still looking at the model years I indicated, am interested in feedback, and my apologies for mis-applying a label of 3rd v 4th.

Thanks!
Scott.

 

[Silver Tex]

Can you and would you delete? Are you looking for just a truck or something specific? Quad cab vs crew cab vs mega cab? Laramie with a lot of bells and whistles or just a plain SLT?

Even if you went with a 2012 you are still dealing with a 8-9 year old truck and the aging problems. You have to really ask yourself how far you want to go to get a solid dependable truck and how much $$ and effort you would put into it, or, is the dependability not a major factor?

Yep! Understood on the age of the truck and potential problems I may inherit. My ‘06 currently has 114K on it and I’m the original Owner. To be more specific, I would prefer a long bed, 4 door, 4X4. I am not too interested in the mega cab as payload is of interest. The trim levels are somewhat secondary as I have seen some Tradesman that have sufficient amenities. I would like to stay at or under $35K. I haven’t had payment for a long time and don’t much like the idea of one. At this price point, I probably won’t have one.

On my current truck I have put (personally) new ball joints in, new upgraded steering linkage, steering brace, rear axel seals, new injectors, new water pump, and adjusted the valves (I’m sure I forgetting others). I only offer this as context to some of the areas of interest I have in hearing from you all and your experiences, as well as those areas where I don’t know what I don’t know.

In addition to not fully appreciating the timeline of 3rd and 4th gen, I don’t know anything about the emissions beyond the truck I have; the front end improvements or lack there of; the 6.7 motor and its pro’s/con’s.

RE: Delete, I would consider it - eventually or more quickly if the emission system began to create problems.

Thanks all and if anyone would care to advise me how to clear the C&C off my post title, that would be awesome. AH64ID and Cerb, I appreciate your interest and guidance. You both have given me good insight and such previously.

Thanks,
Scott.

 

[AH64ID]

The frame/suspension is basically the same as your 06 up thru 12. The 13+ (14+ on 2500) frame and suspension are a huge improvement for higher GVW's as well as towing. The emissions are also much better on the 6.7 at that point. My 0.02 would be to shop for the 13+ 3500's as the improvements are worth the little extra cash especially since you're just buying it as a tow rig.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"The frame/suspension is basically the same as your 06 up thru 12."

Are you sure? I thought 10-12 were an upgrade then another change in 13?

 

[cerberusiam]

The 07-09 are prime candidates for deletes as the emissions systems are less than adequate, mileage is pretty bad, emissions systems are aged way beyond their expected lifetime. No AISIN in them, the 68RFE is likely to need attention at that age unless it has been done. HG problems with programming can be a problem.

The 10-12's have better emissions programming, less issues with HG but deletes can cause problems, better NVH and more options if you are looking for that.

Steering was not fixed until 2013+ trucks and you will have to check as it looks like some 2013 trucks did NOT get cross over steering. 2013+ you will find more AISIN units but unfortunate more 3.43 gearing.

The 4th gens had more of the crew cab if you are looking for extra room in the rear as opposed to the mega cab. Same wheelbase as the quad cab with an 8 foot box. 2013 + will be DEF trucks, less EGR problems, aq little better mileage, but, the SCR system are basically junk and they have a tendency to kill the DPF and catalyst when they go bad.

Later 68RFE's have some of the needed updates but they almost all need some pieces or a rebuild to current best practices and apply trans tuning for best results.

The HE351VE turbos on a non-SCR truck are more prone to issues, a lot can depend on how they were used and any updates applied. Controllers failing are the most common but getting carboned up and causing the failure are also prevalent. When it fails no power or really high drive pressures. All of that trickles down to the HG issues so it is not uncommon to see am HG problem with a failed turbo.

Injectors can be a big deal just like the 5.9's, almost guaranteed if an injector fails it will take out an HG. Just like the 5.9, you have to factor in a set of new injectors for reliability.

Mixed bag when you buy these used trucks and do not go over them in minute detail plus use them as you intend to see what happens.

 

[cerberusiam]

Are you sure? I thought 10-12 were an upgrade then another change in 13?

The only real change was the t-type steering in 08.5 which was still garbage, then the problems with tie rod ends surfaced. Cross over steering, and it slittle issues, started somewhere in 2013, 2014 got that plus frame changes and higher tow ratings. Whether the frame changed enough to warrant those ratings has been a point of discussion.

 

[Tuesdak]

The pre-DEF emissions were not reliable, Period. Further Cummins tried to meet emissions standards early and really had to gag the engines on DPF clogging EGR to do so. MPG suffered. Other OEM’s that skipped early emissions did not have as much trouble. MPG suffered for them as well.

With the age and miles, Expired warranty, these expensive emissions items become your problem and expense. Extended Warranty can exclude expensive DPF’s. Deleted is not the easy option it once was as the EPA has shut down many programmers. It’s poor advice anymore.

Bluntly get the DEF proven emissions or get a pre emissions rig. Maybe keep yours and let your son get his own truck.

 

[AH64ID]

Are you sure? I thought 10-12 were an upgrade then another change in 13?

Yes. There were some minor changes but same basic setup.

 

[Silver Tex]

Maybe keep yours and let your son get his own truck.

This remains on the table. This was actually my idea and seemed like a convenient excuse to get something newer. Maybe not such a great idea after all? MY ‘14 or newer may be what I look for and fortunately not in a big hurry. Surely no one here would suggest looking at a different manufacturer... That would seem to be heresy!
Thanks All!
Scott.

 

[SnoKing]

2015 was RAM more or less got their act together. Power folding mirrors on higher trim levels. 2016 gave ability to move cameras around. We towed a 16K 5th wheel with our 2015 4X4 CC SB SRW Aisin and it did well. Love my 3.42 gears with the Aisin.

 

[Silver Tex]

2015 was RAM more or less got their act together. Power folding mirrors on higher trim levels. 2016 gave ability to move cameras around. We towed a 16K 5th wheel with our 2015 4X4 CC SB SRW Aisin and it did well. Love my 3.42 gears with the Aisin. View attachment 123191

Nice! My 5ver is 12,000# at full GVW. I’m supposing your truck has the exhaust brake as well? That is something I do not currently have. I wondered about the 3.42 gears and appreciate that someone has offered their personal experience. The Aisin is something I’m aiming for. I asked a question 12 hours ago and already I’m looking at 2-4 years newer than planned. Get good info and this is what happens! It’s all good. Good stuff SnoKing!
Thanks,
Scott.

 

[AH64ID]

All 6.7’s with the stock turbo have an exhaust brake.

In pickups the Aisin didn’t start until 2013.

I too am a HUGE fan of the Aisin and 3.42’s. I also spend a lot more time towing in 1st and 2nd gear then most. I was very skeptical until using it. It’s does amazing at low speed and the ratios work out great for towing on the interstate at 70.

Once you use an exhaust brake towing you’ll never want to tow without one. I’d consider it a safety issue not having one with a 12K trailer in the mountains.

 

[Silver Tex]

All 6.7’s with the stock turbo have an exhaust brake.

In pickups the Aisin didn’t start until 2013.

I too am a HUGE fan of the Aisin and 3.42’s. I also spend a lot more time towing in 1st and 2nd gear then most. I was very skeptical until using it. It’s does amazing at low speed and the ratios work out great for towing on the interstate at 70.

Once you use an exhaust brake towing you’ll never want to tow without one. I’d consider it a safety issue not having one with a 12K trailer in the mountains.

Thanks John! I did find a ‘14 with the Aisin in Texas, so they are out there. Any mileage considerations on the transmission? 110K -130K miles Ok? I’ll stay patient and persistent. Yep, got to be careful and not get carried away in the high country!
Scott.

 

[AH64ID]

IMO that mileage range is perfect for a 6 year old truck.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"I too am a HUGE fan of the Aisin and 3.42’s."

For God's sake Ethyl, what's the world coming to.

 

[Buffalo]

Is Ram still installing the Aisin in the 3500, SRW? I heard a rumor awhile back that Chrysler is now producing their own HD Trans. to replace the Aisin. You know how rumors are!!! Can't believe everything you hear. Thank You.