Considering Mig purchase

[sdstriper]

I have been spying the new Dual Voltage MIG welders and recently found an interesting 3-in-1 unit from HTP. Mig-Tig-Stick 3-in-1, inverter technology, it's got the stuff I am looking for in a MIG and it's an opportunity to play TIG welder too, Stick for the heavier stuff of course. I had not heard of them and I wanted to post on here and see if anyone has heard good or bad or even better, Does anyone own one of their units or ever used one? HTP welding equipment? Anyone? Their machines look pretty good for the money, and that MTS 3-in-1 would give a guy the opportunity to learn to TIG, I doubt I would buy a TIG just to play with.

 

[GHarman]

Can you get the supplier to give you a list of buyers for you to contact? Will your supplier let you try one before you buy? Find out where it is made and where you can get it repaired when it breaks down. Does your supplier have to make special orders for parts for this machine when necessary or are they 'in stock items" ? Good things to know. The more you use it the more maintainence they require, no matter what brand. GregH.

 

[sdstriper]

USA made and from what I see it is a better machine than nearly all of the off the shelf home center available units. I know a lot of garage shop users who have the "Red" ones, the most expensive off the shelf brand too. I know a half dozen people that had issues with broken pieces parts etc along the way. One of the reasons I like this brand is the drive wheel and bracketry construction, that seems to be the area of breakdowns from guys I know who had problems. I don't like the fact that nobody I talk to knows of the company, the catalog I received is their 25th Anniversary year catalog, they are out of the Chigago area and supposedly only advertise in welding publications etc. Looks like good equipment and I expected much higher pricing than what they have. I wanted to buy a 180 amp or so 220v mig, never considered TIG. The Dual Voltage Miller MIG caught my attention, then I searched for other DV's, HTP came up in the search. The 3-in-1 is an interesting unit and fits my use for not a bad price at 1200. 00.

 

[GHarman]

I have not heard of HTP so I looked them up on the internet. They do have a 90 day "try it or return it" warranty! Will you order it direct or purchase it through a local supplier? GregH

 

[sdstriper]

I have not heard of HTP so I looked them up on the internet. They do have a 90 day "try it or return it" warranty! Will you order it direct or purchase it through a local supplier? GregH

I would order directly from them if I could make up my mind...

 

[KWentling]

I have seen them advertised in the welding mags at the shop. We may have that brand in an inverter. Are they kind or maroon (sp?) in color? It has been a good machine. We have had it for maybe four or five years and it has seen many hours welding semiauto rotator work, plus the odds and ends fab work, and to my knowlege it has never had a problem. Our Miller inverters, other than one 304, have been in the shop more than we've used them. Terrible record on those. We had four of them at one time. We're down to only one now that we use a spool arc on.



Kim

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Try doing a search on http://www.weldingweb.com . Looking at that MTS machine keep in mind that it's a DC only TIG - lift start arc. You can't TIG weld aluminum with it (carbon steel, stainless steel, and 4130 only according to their docs). It doesn't look like a foot pedal is an option with that unit either which IMO as a novice (VERY novice) tig welder is one of the biggest advantages to tig. I wouldn't take the tig performance of that welder as an indication of how tig welding will work. Also, you mentioned dual voltage in your post and that machine is 220 only.



It sounds from what I'm reading that they want about $1200 for that welder. For that kind of money if it where me I'd buy a MIG like the Lincoln SP175+ (that's what I was planning on replacing my cheapie harbor freight mig with) - you can get that for about $750. A buzz box for stick (should be able to find one used for not too much money - $200 maybe) and put off the tig. Or if you want to play with tig buy one of the real cheap scratch start tig welders - HF sells one for $220. You'd have the same amount of money into it and you'd have a high quality MIG that you could get parts for anywhere and probably wouldn't need to upgrade it down the road. Then when/if your ready to upgrade later you could get a good tig/stick machine and have two really good machines. JMHO

 

[sdstriper]

Steve, thought I would clarify, I found the HTP 3-in-1 after searching for Dual Voltage welders. They do have a DV, Model 160DV $1069. 00. I appreciate the heads up on the TIG, exactly the reason I post here. The MTS is an interesting machine, I would have to call them and talk to someone about the TIG operation before I would ever buy one now. The Lincoln you mention is along the lines of what I wanted when I got off track looking at the DV units. I don't think I will buy a Lincoln brand though, I have seen too many issues with them 1st hand. I think other name brand sellers would be as safe a buy for less initial investment. You can get Clark's closest size (compare to SP175)with a cart, gas kit and tank and still have $200. 00 bucks to spend on an auto darkening helmet! The HTP Model160 single voltage (220v) is more than the Lincoln even, they do have a comparable model in the Model 1600 for 749. 00 but no circuit breaker protection. The rest of their models have it except the 120 and the 1600. One other thing I noticed and question is the wire size. Their wire size is small compared to other brands, . 023-. 035. Does anyone have any thoughts about the small wire size, I am no expert welder?

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Your the first I've heard of anyone having problems with Lincoln's. I know a number of guys locally that have them and have read nothing but good stuff online. When I was looking to upgrade my MIG I decided I was either going to bite the bullet and go either red or blue. The thing I liked about the lincoln was the auto burn back feature and the variable power settings (although I see that Miller now has that with their 175 as well - they didn't at the time). I also talked with a number of people who used both and preferred the lincoln over the miller. I have no experience with Clark machines. As far as wire size I've run nothing but . 030 wire through mine but mine is just a 120a machine.



Check out this thread - http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=6865 . Although it's about tig welders there's some talk in there about HTP. Here's one of the comments there:

I wasn't happy with the sales person at HTP when I called them. I thought they were rude, I wont get into that. Anyway I hear everyone in here say how much they love the Thermo arc and I only herd about 5 people talk about the HTP. I would base my decision on that alone, but thats just me.

 

[DJW]

Unless I had experience of any kind of welding machine I would FIRST go to my Local Welding Supply Business and see what is offered there. They are Brick and Mortar Shops serving Professionals and can not afford to sell Junk. As a beginner or experienced they need Customers to survive. Often a customer needs to update their equipment but need to trade in to reduce cost, so stating your needs they may be able to serve, not forgetting, after they sell a machine you will be a customer for supplies

 

[GHarman]

I would order directly from them if I could make up my mind...

What do you plan to weld? I understand budgetary constraints. Is this a hobby shop do-it-all type of purchase or do you plan on hireing yourself out? Are you are talking about Constant Voltage and Constant Current in one power supply (dual voltage)? You need CV for GMAW (mig) and CC for GTAW (tig), SMAW (stick). Are you an experienced weldor? Just some questions so I understand you better. GregH.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Something else I just noticed. You said you were looking for a 180 amp MIG. That HTP 3 in 1 is only rated to 150a on mig - 40% duty cycle.



Oh yeah - listen to Greg, he knows his welding

 

[KWentling]

My Dad had a Clark. What a joke that machine was. It was no doubt a cheapie so their more expensive machines might be better. I told him to go get a Lincoln or Miller He now has Lincoln SP-175 that he got for less than $400 from a farm store that didn't have it priced correctly. He tried to tell them he didn't think that price was right. I have a Lincoln SP-125 and a 255M. No problems with any of the 3 Lincolns. I too would like to hear what problems they have had. I was told at our local supplier that service help was easier through Miller, but he wouldn't expect to have any problems with either Lincoln or Miller migs. Where do you get a Clark fixed if you have a problem? Also check out you're local stores. I got as good a price local as I could find on the net, and it was in stock.



Kim



Kim

 

[AWray]

sdstriper - did the people you know that had trouble with the Lincoln welders purchase them at any of the box stores ie Home Depot, Lowes, etc? The box stores sell models of Lincoln welders you cannot buy thru any other Lincoln vendor. They are made to a cheaper spec which translates into a lower price. Check with a welding/gas supply store. They will have the stuff that people use to make a living (even if it is overkill for the hobbyist). Good luck.

 

[sdstriper]

sdstriper - did the people you know that had trouble with the Lincoln welders purchase them at any of the box stores ie Home Depot, Lowes, etc? The box stores sell models of Lincoln welders you cannot buy thru any other Lincoln vendor. They are made to a cheaper spec which translates into a lower price. Check with a welding/gas supply store. They will have the stuff that people use to make a living (even if it is overkill for the hobbyist). Good luck.

One was a confirmed home center purchase. Another was a Welding Supply, same issue both machines, both machines were Lincoln brand. The drive and drive wheel assy is the problem and another sell point that caught my eye with HTP. I did not hear from the other complainers at the time of this reply.



GregH, I am self employed, I stripe parking lots and do parking lot signage. I have several pieces of equipment, and several trucks (81-93). Almost all welding repairs (in-season) I have been taking to a welder if needed. And off-season "re-engineering" and/or minor stuff if I have time and access I was welding myself, Lincoln Weld Pack 100HD. It get's the job done. I originally was looking for a 180ish MIG, I like the versatile dual voltage Migs also. The 3-in-1 HTP was an after thought really, I posted looking for opinions and am pleased I did so.

 

[sdstriper]

Something else I just noticed. You said you were looking for a 180 amp MIG. That HTP 3 in 1 is only rated to 150a on mig - 40% duty cycle.



Oh yeah - listen to Greg, he knows his welding

Steve, I would like to stir up some dialog on the marketed amperage ratings and the duty cycle ratings. From brand to brand these ratings are all pretty close. I use a recent Sears tool catalog along with a recent Northern Tool catalog then I have searched online for info and pricing. I have to have the multiple brand info availability from the catalogs, personality glitch and the garage/shop does not have internet access!

 

[GHarman]

sdstriper, As I have written in another post, I will not badmouth anyones choice of equipment. If it works. go-for-it. But I will preface that comment with the fact that ALL equipment breaks down! The more you use it the more you have to maintain it. My experience with hobby shop type welding equipment is limited to my friends Lincoln MIG. I have completed many hours of light fabrication using fluxcore . 035 wire on 1" tube steel frames. No problem encountered. My primary MIG/FLUXCORE experience has and is on dedicated industrial machines designed for high use. Most did not have the fine tuning controls available on the new inverter equipment. We tuned by eye, ear. When buying make sure you are able to get your mig gun parts anywhere; beware of equipment that uses proprietary consumables! Make sure you use proper safety equipment. Dont expose your bare skin to the IR/UV radiation while welding. GregH.

 

[nickleinonen]

Dont expose your bare skin to the IR/UV radiation while welding

yep... i've got a 1" wide burn around my left wrist form welding up a lube oil filter housing [housing holds 10: 6"x30" cartridges/~50 gallons lube oil] on a ge locomotive on monday. . i always wear cotton gloves when welding [they block the uv and more comfortable/flexable than the long leather gauntlets] but my sleeve kept riding up. . oh well. .



if i had known it needed that much work, i would have put sunscreen on and gotten out the leather gloves [was just suppose to be a few pinholes in someones elses bubblegum patch job, but i ended up building up weld in a 4"x6" area to patch the filter housing [if it was more accessable, i would have cut out a section and welded in new, but it stress cracked around one of the mounts and it would be way too much work to fix it that way]

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

I have a Hobart 180, it is 240 volts and has something like a 30% duty cycle. As a home use type of person 30% really isn't enough. I've been welding up a stove for boiling maple sap and it is 18x36, I've been able to go down one side across the back and a few inches up the other side and she times out. Of course when I get going I don't like to quit, I've had a 3 phase Lincoln 250 take a break on me before also and I think that was a 100% duty cycle machine. With that said, I am happy with my Hobart as a MIG only machine and it was pretty cheap at Tractor Supply. I would love to have a TIG but I am going to spend some money when I buy that.

 

[GHarman]

Another thing that you should consider is the mode that you are going to use in your welding process. MIG has 3; Short arc transfer, Globolar transfer and spray transfer. Short arc transfer is by far the most used and is provides less heat input into the base metal. Spray arc is just that, a high voltage, high wire speed spray of molten metal. Quite useful for heavy sections and aluminum (Aluminum is another story =)). Very high heat input to the base metal. A low duty cycle machine will not be satisfactory for this mode. Another issue is the do-it-all power supply. If you do a lot of repair and fabrication that requires only the mig process, get a MIG. Save up for a Constant Current power supply that you will use for GTAW and SMAW. Less time switching over and you have both types of welding processes handy at a moments notice. Just my opinion. GregH.