Considering new 5er Weight question

[Mgeary]

Looking at Arctic Fox 29-5T Weight question



Truck door sticker states weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 2953 lbs



Dry pin weight of trailer 1760 lbs = 18% of dry weight 9630 lbs

Assuming max GVWR of trailer 12000 lbs 18% pin weight = 2160 lbs

Weight of hitch 200 lbs approx

Full tank of fuel 255 lbs

Weight of family + stuff in cab 500 lbs

Total 3115 lbs



Am I overweight?

The truck, not me personally.



Thanks for the help

 

[CKelley1]

no, not by a long shot. do yourself a favor and do not use the truck controller but get a maxbrake or smartbrake. also with the short bed the hitch must be a slider

 

[Mgeary]

no, not by a long shot. do yourself a favor and do not use the truck controller but get a maxbrake or smartbrake. also with the short bed the hitch must be a slider

I'm looking at a Pullrite and am using a Prodigy for my current bumper pull TT

 

[irdew]

(Truck door sticker states weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 2953 lbs)



You answered your own question.

I recently bought a 2500 Ram expecting it to tow up to a 13000Lb fifth wheel. But that same sticker says Im good for 1950lb payload. Which is not enough for any fifth wheel.

 

[HBarlow]

I might be forced to disagree with CKelley. I would not be as confident as he is that you would not overload your truck. My answer is the fully loaded truck and trailer might be excessive for your GVWR but maybe not tire capacity of the rear axle.

The 18% of gross dry weight might change to 20 to 22% of fully loaded weight when the trailer is loaded. Much of the load in a typical fifthwheel is carried in the front belly compartment, under the forward bed, and in the front closet(s).

Before I signed a purchase contract for a fifthwheel I would load the truck as you described with hitch, full fuel tank, passengers, and anything that would be carried in the bed and take it to a scale. Weigh the truck and the rear axle independently. That will tell you how much real carrying capacity you have left for the trailer.

Then assume 20% of 12,000 which is 2,400 lbs. If your truck's carry capacity is greater than 2,400 lbs. you'll be okay but probably loaded to maximum capacity.

A Tekonsha Prodigy is best used as a paper weight. They are essentially useless as a trailer brake controller.

 

[NIsaacs]

Harvey has good advice and sticks to the straight and narrow, which is a good thing. However, I am a bit of a rebel, so I "personally" (not recommending it for you) would not be alarmed with the excess weight.



The new 2012 Ford 150 is rated for 3,000 lb pay load so the 3500 Dodge should be fine.



Nick

 

[CKelley1]

i tow very heavy and have for the last 43 years, with my 710 backhoe i gross 44,000 lbs i guess i think that the trucks are under rated for people who do not know how to drive. harvey is always on the side of safety and life of truck. one thing harvey and i agree on is the only thing the prodigy is good for is a paper weight. once i tried a smartbrake i pulled all of my controllers off and installed maxbrakes and smartbrakes, i think i still have two prodigy's left that was not given away yet.

 

[HBarlow]

I usually offer advice to questions like this assuming the op is preparing to tow his first relatively large and relatively heavy fifthwheel trailer. Many of those who ask probably wouldn't admit it but they know very little of the meaning of GVWR, GAWRs, true carrying capacity vs. manufacturer's max trailer weights, tire ratings, tongue, kingpin, or gooseneck weights, DOT and scales, weight distribution issues, towing/handling, and trailer braking.

I realize that some of you have a lifetime of towing experience and can get away with towing heavy on a lighter truck and tires because you know what you're doing, know your equipment, know all the tricks like avoiding DOT and scales, and many other issues.

My advice occasionally comes across like a mom's advice to her kids but I know some of you older, more experienced members know why I offer the advice I do. I'd rather advise the new heavy trailer buyer to prepare properly than tell him, "sure, you can haul anything you want with that truck. " "It has a Cummins engine. " I would feel bad if we later learn he overloaded his rear axle, blew a tire, and upset the entire rig down a ravine at 65 mph with his family in the truck.

 

[Mgeary]

I usually offer advice to questions like this assuming the op is preparing to tow his first relatively large and relatively heavy fifthwheel trailer. Many of those who ask probably wouldn't admit it but they know very little of the meaning of GVWR, GAWRs, true carrying capacity vs. manufacturer's max trailer weights, tire ratings, tongue, kingpin, or gooseneck weights, DOT and scales, weight distribution issues, towing/handling, and trailer braking.



Thats why I am asking. I have a basic understanding of the above terms. I am trying to put them in the context of practical application. I have overloaded both of my Cummins Rams for short trips, but am trying to avoid when the family and vacation is involved.



I know that my truck will pull the tonsils out of a rhinoceros, I just want to do it safely and "legally".



Thanks

 

[HBarlow]

Mike,

We'll offer a lot of information and advice, some of it conflicting, only you can sort through what we say and pick out what matches your plans and makes sense to you.

 

[RustyJC]

Staying within the manufacturer's ratings (believe it or not, there are a few of us who try to do so :-laf ) can be boiled down to a couple of formulas in sizing a truck and 5th wheel/travel trailer. If one knows the laden curb weight (LCW) of the truck with driver, passengers, full fuel tank(s), cargo, accessories, hitch, etc. :



Truck GCWR - Truck LCW = maximum total loaded weight of 5th wheel/travel trailer



Truck GVWR - Truck LCW = maximum pin/hitch weight of loaded 5th wheel/travel trailer



For sizing purposes, a conservative approach is to use the 5th wheel/travel trailer's GVWR as its total loaded weight and 20% (5th wheel) or 12% (travel trailer) of its GVWR as its loaded pin/hitch weight.



Rusty

 

[Dieselnerd]

Just remember, all the math and guesswork will get you in the ballpark but without actually weighing your fully loaded rig, you'll never know for sure.



I hang out with a lot of RV'ers each winter and it never ceases to amaze me that most of them have no idea what their rig weighs. Most common phrase is "It's a diesel, it will pull anything".



Mine is close to capacity but I don't exceed any factory ratings.

 

[HBarlow]

Many RVers have a very limited understanding of truck capabilities and the basic laws of physics. Many others don't want to know the truth. They believe that "overweight" is just a statistical figure and think overloaded truck rear tires don't really matter.

 

[RonD]

Many RVers have a very limited understanding of truck capabilities and the basic laws of physics. Many others don't want to know the truth. They believe that "overweight" is just a statistical figure and think overloaded truck rear tires don't really matter.

That is exactly true, the first thing one should do is load up the 5th wheel, or TT, fill the water tank, have all the people in the truck, and get it weighed, front axle of truck, rear axle of the truck, and trailer weight of the combined trailer axle, then do the math, your rig will weigh more that you think.

 

[JSoloman]

It's a great idea to weigh both your truck and trailer fully loaded. That will let you know where you're at. It was this forum that helped me when I upgraded to my 26' Arctic Fox. It's the old wood frame and has a max weight of 12k also. I've had it loaded to 11. 7k and the truck at 7800 lbs. No problems towing it for 5 yrs now. If you don't have one, I would suggest a Jake or PAC brake. For me, it is a great saver on the truck brakes and the nerves in heavy traffic and downhill on steep grades.

I think you will do fine. Have my eye on the 29' double slide myself

Good luck with it.

Jenny

 

[Mark31]

Mike, I drooled over a Arctic Fox 27-5L a year or so ago. I've never had an RV, so you can weigh this with a grain of salt. I do have an gooseneck trailer that when loaded gives me a combined weight of just under 24k, but I'm not going far or fast. After listening to Harvey and Griz and a long running thread or two here on TDR, some things I had seen with my own eyes, and a lot of figuring, I came to the conclusion that the 27-5L weight (combined total 20k) and length (side wind forces) would be MY comfort limit for a single rear wheel truck to go longer distances, to the "hills", or congested unfamiliar areas. Happy trails! Mark

 

[ArmandoCantu]

Need advice please. Just ordered new 2012 DRW 3500 4x4. I asked for 4. 10 gears but all I plan to tow is our 35' toy hauler, weighs 8735, empty. I won't tow but occasionally. Anyone think I should go with 3. 73's instead? I'd like to get decent mileage when not towing... . thanks.

 

[RustyJC]

With the 2 overdrives (5th and 6th gear) of the 68RFE automatic, the 4. 10's are a great all-around gear. They give you maximum towing capacity, but 60 MPH is only 1612 RPM in 6th. I don't think you'll regret getting them at all.



Rusty

 

[AH64ID]

I will throw my opinion in here on the brakes. If you have an exhaust brake and tow in the mountains I think a proportional brake controller can work much better for you. On windy mountain roads its common practice to let the trailer do a little more braking than you would on flat ground because it keeps the trailer planted directly behind the truck better. With an exhaust brake and a proportional brake controller (prodigy) you can have the controller apply brakes to the trailer in conjunction with the exhaust brake and not use the service brakes (other than to activate the controller), with a maxbrake or smartbrake you will not get any braking to the trailer based on braking from the exhaust brake. This can lead to varied braking of the truck, but steady braking of the trailer. . which isn't a good thing on steep winding roads. If you have a constant rate of deceleration with a maxbrake/smartbrake and then downshift/engage the EB you will need to reduce the service brakes to keep the same rate of deceleration which in turn reduces the trailer braking. With a prodigy you can reduce the service brakes but maintain the trailer braking because the power to the trailer brakes is based on deceleration, which is now provided by the EB.

If you live/tow in flat country or don't tow with an exhaust brake (why wouldn't you?) then a maxbrake/smartbrake is the way to go. . but I won't give up that added braking to the trailer when the EB is working hard.

 

[AABEN]

I pull heavy all the time. Snow bird 38 ft 4 slides with a front room up front it has a higher front end so the front room has more space. I have the Jake Brake I would not be with out one it will save all of your brakes. When we are on the road full of fuel we go 23. 000Lb and this is with OUT water in trailer. I have a 21. 000 hitch