2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission coolant (distilled water) question

[Bill Lins]

I've been mixing Fleetgard coolant with distilled water as recommended on this forum. In the October issue of 4Wheel & Off-Road, they state that deionized (?) water should be used, and "distilled water is a definite no-no since it PROMOTES electrolysis".



Any chemists on here? Have I been screwing up my cooling system with distilled water or is that magazine full of solder bloom?

 

[illflem]

What you read is bogus. Here's a part of a bulletin I received pertaining to replacing an electrolysis/acid damaged radiator.



Electrolysis; What is it? Chemical change, especially decomposition, produced in an electrolyte by an electric current.



What causes it? Most likely it is caused by improper vehicle grounding. Electrical grounding problems can stem from poor installation of aftermarket accessories or uncorrected vehicle collision damages.



How to detect it? First, test your antifreeze with ph test paper. It should be neutral or some what alkaline. If the coolant has been effected by a stray current it will be acidic. Another way to test would be with a voltage meter to see if there is a difference in the coolant voltage and your vehicle ground.



How do you fix it? 1) You must find and correct the electrical problem (stray current). 2) You will need to completely flush your entire cooling system. Acidic contaminated antifreeze left in the engine block will eventually ruin another radiator. 3) Once the new radiator is installed, you must use only new quality antifreeze and distilled water. Never use recycled antifreeze or tap water. 4) Once everything is installed properly you need to retest the system, insuring the coolant is neutral to alkaline.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Good reply illflem I will have to copy that one.

Distilled water should not have anything in it except H2O, if they use the boil method all solid particles and other elements that boiling point is not greater than 220 are left in container being heated.

They can send it thru a few filtering elements( charcoal ... ) to get other elements out.

Non distilled water can have minerals in them that mite not be suitalbe for the components of the cooling system or anti-freeze.



Four Wheel and Off-Road is pretty good magizine, but sometimes come up with oddball things. Which issue I would like to read it to see if they gave any references to this water theory.

 

[Blakers]

Distilled water and deionized water is virtually the same - both should be just H2O. Distilled water is achieved through boiling and condensing the water. Deionized water is run through a media bed that removes all the minerals dissolved in the water, leaving just H2O.



Now, what most people don't know is distilled or deionized water, if used by itself, is very corrosive to metals. This is because the water is "hungry" for minerals and will therefore attack the metal and eat it. It is much more corrosive than "tap" water. But tap water usually contains some degree of minerals that will precipitate out and cause scale to build up on the radiator or engine block surfaces, insulating them and decreasing the cooling efficiency.



But, if mixed with antifreeze, the distilled water makes a good coolant. The antifreeze will prevent corrosion.



I don't think it is always necessary to use distilled or DI water in your radiator, but it is a safe way if you don't know how good your own water is. Your water may or may not contain minerals. If you have a water softener, it should take out all the calcium and magnesium that cause scale. An iron filter will take out iron in the water.



Electrolysis should not be a problem in a full cooling system. If you drained it all the time or condensation built up in it, there could be drops of water left in the bottom. This drop will act like a tiny batter with an anode and cathode section. Eventually it would form a pit due to the current flow.



I get 4 Wheel and Off Road, but yes they do have many errors. I think Wendy is especially prone to errors in her articles. Some I have read are completely wrong.



Blake

 

[emjay]

I agree with Blakers, except "distilled" doesn't necessarily imply "steam distilled" which is the preferred method. There are varying degrees (no pun intended) of quality in any distilling or deionization process. Generally speaking, deionized water is purer that distilled, but I think we're splitting hairs.



In any case, the best thing to do is use a mix of antifreeze and water, and make sure all of the air is purged (a properly functioning closed cooling system will do this automatically).



The statement in the magazine that distilled water promotes electrolysis might've been taken out of context ( I haven't seen it myself, just speculating) -- Perhaps they were referring to the comparison without coolant of tap water and distilled water?

 

[HEMI®Dart]

What category would water from the Dehumidifier fall into?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Well,

HEMI®Dart it is being boiled and it is turning into vapor (1. steam, 2. moisture).

Unfortunatley it is mixing with all the foul air in the house that comes in when you open doors.

As a matter of fact if you knew of all the nasty things you breathe in when you take a breath.

You would be tempted to use that KN air filter oil on your nose hairs.



Have a nice day!



To be distilled it has to go to one container to another without be introduced to any other elements. Of course you know that!

 

[Bill Lins]

Originally posted by Missouri Mule

Which issue I would like to read it to see if they gave any references to this water theory.

It's the October 2002 issue, page 94- red box in the lower right corner titled "Antifreeze".



Thanks to every one who replied- my mind is now at ease.

 

[DocStressor]

Ok, just to clear up the science. The statment in the magazine article is incorrect. The quality of distilled or deionized water is measured by conductivity. This is the amount of electrical current that is conducted by the water at a given voltage. In order to conduct a current, the water must contain free (metal or salt) ions. So the higher the purity of the water, the lower the conductivity or the greater the electrical resistance. In general, water distilled using a stainless steel still has an initial resistance of about 1 megohm. Glass distilled water has an initial resistance of about 3 megohms, since glass contains fewer soluble ions than steel. Deionized water can vary all over the place. Commercial DI water is usually prepared by a process known as reverse osmosis (RO), and typically has an initial conductivity of less than 1 megohm similar to “steam” distilled water. Reagent grade water is prepared by passing distilled or RO treated water over mixed bed ion exchange resins to remove essentially all of the salts and metals and then over activated charcoal to remove organic compounds. The maximum purity that can be obtained is 18 megohm, since water itself ionizes weakly (this is what pH is about). Reagent grade water is corrosive to metal since water is a universal solvent. However, as soon as the water comes in contact with metal (or just about anything else) an equilibrium is established. The small amount of metal that goes into solution increases the conductivity of the water (and decreases the resistance) and makes it less corrosive.



The point is that you can’t buy reagent grade water in a typical store. And even if you were to mix reagent grade water with antifreeze, the antifreeze itself contains enough electrolytes in the form of corrosion inhibitors that the mixture would no longer be “metal hungry”. Interestingly, the electrolysis problem that Ilflem talks about can only occur because of the presence of electrolytes in the antifreeze mixture. The low conductivity of pure distilled or deionized water would prevent electrolysis because no current could flow between dissimilar metals.



So any commercial distilled or deionized water is fine for an antifreeze mix. So is household water that has been run though a good water softener. You just need to avoid tap water that contains a lot of calcium or other salts that can precipitate (form scale) or promote electrolysis.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thanks illflem arrived yesterday, read the insert. According to this forum post they did not do their homework.



Nice post Lee very informative.

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by HEMI®Dart

What category would water from the Dehumidifier fall into?

It should be just fine to use. It is essentially distilled water (condensed from moisture in the air) with some degree of air pollutants and probably some aluminum oxides or salts from the coils in the dehumidifier.



Blake

 

[illflem]

The true test

Although my dogs seem to prefer the dirtiest water they can find they will drink distilled water but will not touch defrost water off a condenser. I routed the defrost line from a large drive in cooler to a water bowl outside the building thinking "great my dog bowl filling days are over". They would rather dehydrate than drink it, I gave it a try and could see why, it tasted very bad.