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Crank, but no start....

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I have a 1999 Ram 3500 base truck with a Cummins/5 speed. I also have an interior out of a 2000 Sport model that is power seats/heated/lumbar, power windows and locks, overhead computer console, and it has the wiring for inside the cab, and "most" of the under the hood wiring, including the power distribution box. A few weeks ago, I removed the interior, and installed the wiring for inside the cab, the seats, headliner, and overhead console from the 2000. It ran good, but I had no high beam headlights or cab lights, no speedometer or odometer. After a few days of not finding the issue, I changed it back to the 1999 harnesses, as this is my daily driver. Now I have a crank but no start. It starts for 3 seconds and then stops. It does this 3 times and doesn't start again. I hot wired the vp44, so it's not that. Nothing else changed. I have FSM downloaded for each year of wiring, and I'm usually pretty good at wiring, but this is kicking my butt. I do see some changes between the 2 years in the schematics.

Yesterday, I hooked the 2000 wiring back up, and it starts immediately....ONCE I HIT THE DOOR UNLOCK of the key fob, but still have the light issue and no od or speedo. This sounds like a anti theft activation (VTSS?). Is the anti theft stored in the PCM? I tried locking and unlocking the doors several time, and changed back to the original wiring, but it's still starting for 3 seconds x3 and stopping. I'm really not sure where to go from here. Suggestions??
 
I'm trying to work this out in my head. I think printing the wiring diagrams for both years and studying them side-by-side may be what you need to do. There will be multiple sections and pages, and each section might unexpectedly affect other sections.
  • The truck you retrofitted is a 1999 3500 base model with a 5 speed manual transmission. Is that correct?
  • Was the 2000 sport model a 2500 or a 3500? (Not sure there was a 3500 sport.)
  • Was the 2000 sport model also a diesel? (I am guessing that it was.)
  • Was the 2000 sport model an automatic or a 5 speed? (This could matter. Maybe.)
  • By "od or speedo" do you mean odometer or speedometer? (My first reading was that "od" meant "overdrive, sorry about that.)
Back in 2006, I needed to retrofit a Tradesman 3500 to use power mirrors. I had received high-priced quotes that also required upgrades to power windows and locks. What I ended up doing was comparing the wiring diagrams from a 1996 CTD and the 2004 CTD. Then I built in a completely separate circuit straight from the battery for the power mirrors. I used a CIPA mirror set and the 1996 MoPar joystick. (Plus The key here was that the upgrade was completely separated from any of the OEM circuitry in the 2004 truck.

I like to make things neat and elegant. Sometimes that's not feasible. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the reply!! Yep... 1999 base model/5 speed and no security. The 2000 sport model was a 2500/Cummins/5 speed WITH security. By speedo and od, I was referring to the speedometer and odometer. I've scanned and studied the schematics for hours, but I haven't set them side by side and noted differences. The FSM is broken down into many pieces, so it's difficult to do that. I've been looking for schematics that have more detail per page, but I haven't come up with it yet.

I know that building my own harness for the windows, locks, seats, etc, would be quite simple, but until I can get the truck "unlocked" so I can use my original harness, that can't happen. At the moment, I'm calling every garage, mechanic, witch doctor, I can think of, but nobody has a DRB III. I have a few places to call today. I called a friend at one of the largest Dodge dealerships in WV, and he said they don't have them now. They try not to deal with a 23 year old trucks, but he gave me the names of 2 past mechanics that he called the "best of the best" on the 2nd gen rams. There has to be a way to clear the anti theft alarm without a DRB III. If I knew for sure the code is stored in the PCM, I'd have the PCM rebuilt to my VIN number. That should clear it all. Again, I appreciate the reply.
 
I understand and sympathize! Back in `06 when I did the retrofit, I had PDF versions of both the 1996 and 2004 TSMs. So I was able to print out "sacrificial" copies of each sections to write on. Then I used a sort-of blank area on one of the 2004 TSM pages to sketch out the new circuit's wiring diagram. A couple of years later, I made the same retrofit on a 2007.5 6.7 liter CTD, knowing that there would be no "communication" between systems.

The anti-theft alarm completely baffles me, though.
 
I talked to a mechanic yesterday that has a DRB III scan tool, but he said the anti theft can't be turned off with it. He has a great reputation, and worked at a large Chrysler/Dodge dealership for many years, but that contradicts what I've heard from other DRB users online. He said I'd either have to buy a used PCM from a similar base truck of that year, or send the PCM off to have it flashed by VIN and specify I want the anti theft turned off permanently. As for using the 2000 harness, the light issue should be an easy fix. I think the headlight issue is a 2 headlight vs. quad issue. I didn't realize the donor truck had quads, until I was looking at the harness that goes from the firewall to the lights, including the power distribution box. The issue of no speedometer and odometer may be a bit harder to fix. I'll need to make a move soon to send the PCM off, or find the issues with the 2000 harness compatibility. My only other vehicle is a 1953 Chevy Pro Street that isn't very street friendly. I appreciate your input!!!!
 
Wouldn't there be a RF module for the security system to match up. I would think that you would need that from the donor truck. If the donor truck didn't have that could be what you're fighting. When I did the remote start on my truck, it had a new RF module and 2 new Fobiks. Just another thing to check out. Wiring is SOOO much fun! :eek:
 
Are the RF modules used on a 2000 year truck? I see nothing in the FSM about it, and the key fob works. I thought it worked through the CTM.
 
@Mark P, Not sure about that on modules. Is fob built into the key? If so, there would be an RF ID tag in it that needs to match system. Without a match, no start. I had an issue adding a remote start to the DW car. Had to program a module to have the proper RF ID tag for the system. Security systems can drive you batty!!!! Tracing wiring isn't any fun for sure. Good luck and wanted to post what I've run into. Glad that you've got a FSM. Maybe take a scan of the pages with your phone and then print them out to compare side to side. Good luck.
 
@Mark P, Not sure about that on modules. Is fob built into the key? If so, there would be an RF ID tag in it that needs to match system. Without a match, no start. I had an issue adding a remote start to the DW car. Had to program a module to have the proper RF ID tag for the system. Security systems can drive you batty!!!! Tracing wiring isn't any fun for sure. Good luck and wanted to post what I've run into. Glad that you've got a FSM. Maybe take a scan of the pages with your phone and then print them out to compare side to side. Good luck.


The fob is separate from the key. The key is not a chip key. The truck was a base truck with no security turned on. I installed the 2000 Sport model wiring inside the cab, and the truck ran good, but had a few issues. I changed back to the original 1999 wiring and it won’t start. It will start on the 2000 harness, after I hit the unlock button on the key fob, but no speedometer or odometer. I’ve printed many pages of pin outs from both FSMs and I’m in the process of comparing them. I’m seeing several differences in the dash harness and I think the main issue would be at connector 134, with 9 differences in the wires.
 
I wonder if you had unlocked the truck with the key and then tried to start. The aftermarket alarm on the DW car sounds alarm if you unlock with the key until you turn the ignition! This happens with the emergency key that was programmed for her to carry in bottom of her "duffel bag" if see misplaced her Fobik. Is there anything in the FSM about the security system? There should be something in there about diagnosing an issue. Good luck. If you were closer I'd lend a free hand and the many meters I've got on the shelf!
 
I appreciate the offer, and I appreciate the advice. I believe I tried to unlock the doors with the key, and then start it. It starts so easy with the 2000 harness, and I'm seeing several changes between the 2 harnesses. I see different wiring (4) at the small plug on the ignition switch, and I see at least 9 differences in the wiring at the 134 Connector. I did not change the harness under the hood, that includes the power distribution box, and now I'm thinking I may need to change that to match the 9 different wires there. I have been looking for an interchange, but haven't found one yet.
 
I'm sure I have all the connectors to make the power options work, and they appear pretty simple, as far as the schematics in the FSM. My first goal is to get a truck running, and it looks like a rebuild/reprogram of the PCM is the only option. I've contacted a couple mechanics with the DRB III tool, and they say the anti theft activation can not be turned off, except by a person that has the capabilities of reprogramming the PCM. I'm trying to find someone to do that now.
 
UPDATE........................ I'm hoping this can get a bit more replies that it originally did. After almost a month of waiting on my ECM and PCM to come in from a programmer, I got them in the mail last Thursday. Anxious to have my truck running again, I immediately installed them, and ................. no start. F*%K When I sent them to the guy in VA, I made clear that I thought it was the anti theft activated, and he said he could turn it off. I have all my messages from him, stating what he could do. When asked what he did, he said he "flashed" them, and said that should have taken care of it. The FSM indicated the anti theft was in the PCM, but he said that is wrong, that it was actually in the ECM. He said the ECM took a couple weeks to flash, as it wouldn't communicate with his equipment. (bad sign?) He had to hook up a second ECM to get it to accept the programming. The truck cranks as it did before, but does not start. I hot wired the VP44 this evening, and it started right up. I checked pin 5, 6, and 7, and all checked ok. Voltage on pin 5 was just less than half a volt with key on, and 12.9 with key off. Pin 6 had a solid ground, and pin 7 had 12.9 volts with the key on, and about 11.3 with it cranking. So now I'm back to square one. FASS lift pump works great and as I understand it, if the VP starts by hot wiring, it should be ok, plus, I have power to the VP through the truck wiring. What in the wiring from the ECM prevents it from starting? Apparently, pins 1,2,3,4, or 8, hold the key to the truck not starting, not that they are the cause of it all. Is it safe to assume the ECM is bad? I've contacted several Dodge dealers, as well as 6 mechanics in a 50-75 mile radius, as well as a ASE technician. Nobody is interested in taking on the job. They say it is too time consuming. The Dodge dealers said they don't work on 24 year old trucks.
 
Is Marco or Bob from Smarty still around? I bet they could tell you about any anti-theft programming and what module it would be in.
 
I spoke with Tyler at Thoroughbred Diesel, and he said it is a dead ECM. They have none in stock, and can't get the cores, so I sent mine in and they said it would be repaired and tested, and has a 1 year guarantee. Almost $1100, but if it fixes it, it will be money well spent. I'm anxious to see how it goes, as a month ago, I sent the ECM and PCM to a shop in VA to have them fixed/flashed/reprogrammed/whatever they do to them, and he said they are both good to go. Find out in a few weeks...
 
SOOOOOOOOOOOO..... after a few months of spending money ($3000) and trying to find a mechanic to work on the Ram, I finally gave up. I called 3 dealerships, and was told they don't work on 23 year old trucks, nor do they have the equipment to work on them. I talked to at least 10-12 mechanics, one of which was a ASE Master Tech, within a 75 mile radius, and everyone seemed to have bad thoughts of the 98.5-2002 Rams, for some reason. I do see quite a few "crank but no start" posts on the forums. I sent the PCM off for a re-flash, and the ECM off twice, and nothing worked. It is now sporting a new VE PUMP. Not a bad job to do, but most of my time was spent ordering parts and waiting on them to show up. I spent several hours getting the air bled out of the pump and lines, but it sounds great. All the gauges seem to work fine, but I do have the "check engine light" on, as I expected. I took the time to clean and tidy up the engine bay a bit, and replaced anything that I thought might give me problems in the near future. Very happy to have it back on the road. I have a new fuel pin for it, and I'll be turning the fuel up after I've put a few miles on it.

The only bad thing I've noticed is that if it sets even for a very short period of time, it seems to lose prime, and takes about 10 revolutions to start. It will hit a few times before it finally starts. It seems that I saw something on one of the forums about NOT using the return line that goes to the back of the head and to the fuel tank, if using a FASS, which I am. I haven't been able to find the post, but I'll continue to look for it. I had to move the steel line around a bit at the T, while pulling the tappet cover, and I may have caused a leak there. If anyone has any suggestions on an air leak, I'd appreciate it. THANKS!!
 
NOPE................ I changed it to a manual Bosch VE.. non intercooled. Timed it on the "C" on the pump gear. I'll lose a little bottom end, but I can deal with that. I can help that with some pump adjustments. Not a bad swap. I can take care of the mechanical issues. I couldn't fix the computer issue.
 
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