Archived Cranking with no FP...won't start now

[ajak]

Sorry but I'm a bit of a noob here and I'm dead in the water now. My truck is a 2001 w/ DDII's, and a Edge Comp box with 150,000 on the clock. Yesteday the truck died on me a couple miles from home. It would restart after I let it sit for a minute or two. Then it would run for another minute or two then die again. Finally had to get towed.



We changed the fuel filter, it was filthy (I know, I know very bad) then the thing ran for a bit pretty well. Parked it and then go to restart and nothing now. It cranks but won't start. No fuel pressure. I know the lift pump quit on me for sure... . don't hear a thing from back there before I crank it and the relay is fine.



I want to go the cheapest route to get going again (probably getting rid of the truck) and the mechanic says to start with the lift pump in the tank. I had one go at 60,000 that the dealer covered. What are we talking about money wise here? Does the whole tank have to come off? What's my best option here? Any help is appreciated... thanks in advance.

 

[litespeed]

2001... Cant hear anything from back there?



The lift pump is mounted on the engine and below the fuel filter unless the dealer or someone else removed it and installed one of those in tank POS's. Or maybe some one moved the lift pump to the frame rail by the tank.



Have you tried it without the box?



Sounds like you may have killed the VP.

 

[ajak]

So there is no pump in the tank? I've been the owner of the truck the whole time and never had anything moved.

 

[JLandry]

ajak,



Your truck came from the factory with a lift pump manufactured by Carter located on the left (driver's) side of the engine below the fuel filter... not in the fuel tank. Now it's possible that when you had the lift pump replaced by a dealer previously, they installed a replacement pump in the fuel tank. You should be able to figure this out by looking for a lift pump mounted on the side of the engine... if it's not there, then obviously the dealer removed it and installed a tank mounted lift pump module.



If you still have the lift pump in the stock location, it's a peace of cake to replace (although you have to contort and twist your arms a bit to get around everything in the way to reach it). The street price on a new engine mounted lift pump is about $150 give or take. You can buy a better aftermarket Airtex gearotor type pump which also bolts to the same spot on the engine from Diesel Distributors USA for $149. 99 with free shipping. I have one on my truck in the stock location and it provides excellent pressure (17. 5psi at idle, 13. 5 at cruise, and never below 7psi at WOT).



If however you do have the tank mounted pump, then that's going to be a more involved job requiring the tank to be dropped and the lift pump module is more expensive. Replacement lift pump modules are available on eBay.



I sure hope your VP44 injection pump didn't destroy itself due to low fuel pressure.



Good luck!



John L.

 

[ajak]

Thank you for the great reply. I'm going to go the Airtex route, they have them at Advance and hopefully this will get me moving again. If it is the VP... how much are we talking?

 

[JLandry]

If it is the VP... how much are we talking?

Are you sitting down?



Street prices range from about $1000 to $1100 not including a core charge or shipping. A well respected place to buy one seems to be Midwest Fuel Injection. Their web site has some good info... it's worth checking out.



Drive safe,



John L.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I would put five gallons of diesel in your tank to make sure it is not the infamous fuel level sending unit.

 

[ajak]

Thanks for the replies guys! Here's how it went... ... tried to get an Airtex in there but Advance had it at a different store so no Airtex. Went to NAPA and got the Carter (I know but I had to get back on the road). Never had any code for the VP come up thank God. She started right up and I have about 12psi at idle. Up and running. I haven't taken it out on a test drive yet to see how she's working under load. Should I be worried about anything else... . have I dodged a bullet?

 

[JLandry]

ajak,



Congratulations!



If you can afford to, I'd order an Airtex pump anyway and keep it in your tool box for when the Carter gives out sooner or later.



Regards,



John L.

 

[comm-tech]

ajak,



snip



If you still have the lift pump in the stock location, it's a peace of cake to replace (although you have to contort and twist your arms a bit to get around everything in the way to reach it). The street price on a new engine mounted lift pump is about $150 give or take. You can buy a better aftermarket Airtex gearotor type pump which also bolts to the same spot on the engine from Diesel Distributors USA for $149. 99 with free shipping. I have one on my truck in the stock location and it provides excellent pressure (17. 5psi at idle, 13. 5 at cruise, and never below 7psi at WOT).



snip



John L.

So the Airtex is a much better pump than the factory Carter? I looked at the pictures of the Airtex pump they list for a 2001 CTD. The line configuration looks quite a bit different. So how do the lines connect on the Airtex vs the original pumps? I think I may have dodged a bullet with my 01. I'm going to replace the LP and the cost from Diesel Distributors for the Airtex is about $40 less than a stock pump from NAPA. But I just want to confirm about fuel line connections.



Also... . I want to put my boost gauge where I can see it up on the A pillar. Who makes the best A pillar gauge mounting interior trim panel? I'd like 3 gauges.



Which leads to the third question, What's the best package for an electric fuel pressure gauge to monitor the LP output (I prefer a gauge not just a light)? Anything that is just a "bolt in" so I don't have to modify the filter housing or fuel lines?



Thanks

Karl M.

 

[JLandry]

So the Airtex is a much better pump than the factory Carter?

Karl,



Based on what I've seen so far... I think so. But only time and lots of installations will prove that. If I'm not mistaken, the Airtex pump is based on the successful Walbro pump, and it's proven to be quite reliable by those who've been using it.

I looked at the pictures of the Airtex pump they list for a 2001 CTD. The line configuration looks quite a bit different. So how do the lines connect on the Airtex vs the original pumps?

Yes the Airtex does appear quite a bit different that the OEM Carter lift pump, but trust me, it does bolt to the same spot and connect to the stock hoses. The only minor difficulty you may encounter when installing an Airtex pump in the stock location is that the engine oil dip stick tube is close to the pump inlet (but not in the way when the pump is properly positioned), and the fuel return line running down the driver's side at the rear of the engine might be in the way of the pump inlet. That later problem is easily dealt with by carefully pushing on and bending the fuel return line toward the engine block.



BOTTOM LINE: The Airtex pump fits just fine even though it appears different from the OEM pump.

Also... . I want to put my boost gauge where I can see it up on the A pillar. Who makes the best A pillar gauge mounting interior trim panel? I'd like 3 gauges.

You can buy A-Pillar gauge holders everywhere. I bought mine from a seller on eBay and it fit perfectly over the existing A-Pillar cover. It's held in place by plastic push-pins. You probably can't go wrong buying from well known online retailers such as Diesel Distributors USA, Geno's Garage, etc.

Which leads to the third question, What's the best package for an electric fuel pressure gauge to monitor the LP output (I prefer a gauge not just a light)? Anything that is just a "bolt in" so I don't have to modify the filter housing or fuel lines?

I can't help you much there as I have a mechanical DiPricol fuel pressure gauge from Diesel Distributors... works great. I went with a mechanical gauge simply because it was less expensive than an electric. But there's no doubt that installing a mechnical gauge is more involved than an electric due to the need to properly install an isolater and purge the lines. Diesel Distributors sells their gauges as complete kits, so everything needed to install is included with the gauge... even the instructions.



Best regards,



John L.

 

[ProspectorTim]

If you can stand a small DIGITAL gauge that shows one item at a time ... .
you can have Boost, EGT, Fuel Pressure, and (trans or oil or differential) Temp in one small package ... and get MORE power too.

Check out the Quad Adrenaline!

 

[comm-tech]

Karl,



snip



I can't help you much there as I have a mechanical DiPricol fuel pressure gauge from Diesel Distributors... works great. I went with a mechanical gauge simply because it was less expensive than an electric. But there's no doubt that installing a mechnical gauge is more involved than an electric due to the need to properly install an isolater and purge the lines. Diesel Distributors sells their gauges as complete kits, so everything needed to install is included with the gauge... even the instructions.



Best regards,



John L.

I got the Airtex pump installed no problem. As you said I had to bend the fuel return line in towards the block. I got it locally as I need this truck running and reliable. It cost me about $50 more but it's in (and after being pretty much resigned to replacing the VP44 I don't even mind spending the $200, the thread for my truck was about a week ago).



And I'll iterate... do yourself a favor, before you order the VP44 make sure you have good pressure from the LP without air in the low pressure system and open a few of the injector lines. Crank the engine a bit with those lines open and make darned sure that nothing is coming out. I came really close to ordering the VP44 but wanted to REALLY be sure before spending $1200. That's allot of dough to me. Glad I did the full troubleshooting on it.



Now on to the gauges. I spent some time looking around and I really like the Isspro multi-color pyrometer and the black faces of their gauges (better match to the factory gauges) but I wanted an electric fuel pressure gauge. They apparently don't have an electric fuel pressure gauge..... and Diesel Direct has a pretty good price on the whole kit with the 3 gauges (fuel, pyro, boost). So just how much hassle is the mechanical gauge? What about mounting the isolator?



Karl M.

 

[JLandry]

So just how much hassle is the mechanical gauge? What about mounting the isolator?



Karl M.

Karl,



Installing a mechanical fuel pressure gauge is certainly going to be a bit more hassle then installing an electric gauge, but the thought of it is more difficult than it really is. And keep in mind it's a only one-time thing you have to go through.



The DiPricol fuel pressure gauge kit I received from Diesel Distributors came with everything needed for a nice install. They provided a rubber hose with crimped on fittings to connect between the inlet port of the VP44 injection pump and the isolator. This hose was long enough so that I was able to mount the isolator on the firewall near the brake cylinder. I could have mounted it just about anywhere... even zip tied it to something. A cushioned loop clamp was provided to hold the isolator.



The biggest hassle of the install is filling the cab side of the isolator and plastic line to the gauge with a 50/50 mix of engine coolant (antifreeze). But the kit included a syringe and complete instructions on how to do this so in the end it really wasn't much trouble. The thin plastic line is routed from the location of the isolator to the location in the cab where the the gauge will go. The cab side of the isolator is filled with coolant using the syringe, then the plastic line is also filled with the coolant (using the syringe) from the engine compartment.



The biggest challenge was getting the plastic line into the fitting on the isolator before too much coolant seeped out of the line. A few air bubbles in the line are OK, but fewer are better for accurate and fast pressure readings. I worked alone, but having a helper to hold a finger over the open end of the plastic line inside the cab would have made the job a snap.



A couple of other items worth mentioning:



DO NOT over tighten the compression fittings that connect the plastic line to the isolator and gauge. Once you feel the nut is snug, tighten only 1/2 more turn (or whatever the instructions provided tell you... they're not kidding). Once the engine is started, you'll want to check for seepage of coolant at the isolator and back of gauge, and if needed you can tighten the compression nut another 1/8 turn at a time. Too much tightening and you'll distort the tiny compression sleeve and thin plastic line and never get rid of a leak. If needed, replacement compression sleeves should be available at NAPA or any hydraulic supply store.



Lastly, make sure you seal all pipe thread fittings with a diesel compatible sealant (should be provided with kit).



Best regards,



John L.