Crew cab rear axle problem

[RSchwarzli]

Well guys, got the truck up on a hoist while certifying it and got a big surprise :--) A W250 rear axle with two custom made spacers so that the wheels sit where they should for a dually. The problem is the 6 inch spacers where bolted where the tire should have been bolted, and the tires where bolted to the spacers! So over the years and owners when they titened the lug nuts thinking they where titening the wheels to the axle, the spacers where getting looser and looser. Bottom line is the spacers are shot like a dead deer and now I have a choice. Get a set of spacers made (very last choice), get a W350 rear axle, or mabee just while I am doing this, get a second gen 3500 rear axle and that way I know I am covered should I ever decide to heavily BOMB the thing. Can a second gen axle even be bolted to a first gen? I remember reading somewhere that you could? Any thoughts?



Robert



P. S. Where can I get axles from and what is the average going rate?

 

["Mad Max"]

Rob -



Well, that just about sucks amigo - sorry about the crappy discovery . But in answer to your question of what to do about it, I can offer my recent experience with a very similar situation. In my case, I'm converting to a dually, and I found an '02 Dana 80 dually rear end, from a Cummins 3500 rig, with clean 4. 10's, ABS, Limited Slip, and discs, and I got it (delivered) to a local shop for $2175. That may seem high, but the guts inside are good to go and I'm adding a bearing kit anyways, so I'll be into it for about $2500 bucks.

Now, that axle, with those options, was specifically what I wanted to have, and I paid what I believe is decent money for it. But in my case there's another piece of the puzzle - I'm doing full custom suspension, and the spring perches won't be necessary (something to do with air bags and 4-links... ). So I'm not sure if the perches match up - I think they do but someone else i here will have to back me up. As well, I priced having a new Dana 80 with those options made, and I about choked on the price tag(upwards of $6k), to which I said, "umm, nope. "

Plus, since I'm looking to push over 1000 lb/ft of torque when my little project is complete next Spring I needed big beef, and a good Dana 80 is it - for me it was a no-brainer. I also needed a dually and I'm planning to do some mild off-roading/camping/backwoods exploring, so I needed the biggest hubs and axles I could find - not necessary for most trucks, even bombed ones. Plus, my budget also allows for all this nonsense, which surely helps.

I don't really have any experience with adaptors, but I know there are some pretty sweet CNC'd pieced out there that are supposed to work good. I think the best long-term route is to get a real dually setup, but for the short term for you that may not be necessary?? It'll depend on when you plan to Bomb the rig hard, and what kind of weight you'll be hauling around. I'd say that if you're just hauling yourself around as a driver, go with a set of new adaptors and search for a rear axle in the meantime.

Hope that helps for some perspective.

- Sam

 

[1stgen4evr]

Axles

I think Sam is right on his advise and I certainly second the thought of new adapters for the time being. I had a set made from a steel donut that had the same sort of arragment as you describe and since I knew what to tighten, I never had any trouble. They weren't all that heavy and did a good job. You might find a set by putting an ad in the classified. There was a guy in Washington state that had a set of adapters and aluminum wheels a while back on ebay. The whole shooting match was reasonable and I would have bought it but for the freight.



Unless you are going to really bomb the **** out of your truck, a 70 rear will do the job. Don't know about your neighborhood but around here the dually axle will run you close to a grand. I have seen them in the TDR classified for as little as 700. You can install a different axle as you can change the spring perches if needed. That work must be done by a qualified individual but is really not too much of a chore. From what I have read in the forum, the problem with the 80 is in the ebrakes. It definitely has been done.



I still like your rig.

James

 

[TKingsbury]

Let me know how wide it needs to be. I know a guy with a 70 out of a 2nd gen that could be had for a reasonable price (I think). I can also find out what gears are in it.

Travis. .

 

[Philip]

Damn I had hoped you wouldn't find hillbilly finger prints on that truck. :{





I have measured the spring perches on a 2000 model rear axle. They had the same centers on the spring perches as our trucks.



The emg brake cables will take some working around. I didn't measure the hole into the backing plate to see if they were the same as ours.



The ujoint was bigger on the 80 model rearend. So the end ujoint cross would have to be replaced.



When I bought my rear axle 4 years ago it ran me $1500. Plus shipping. It is a 3:08 rear gear. This made it harder to find than a 3:54 model.



Check your gearing. Being a non OD truck with a 3 spd auto it might have 3:08's in it. Dually rears are had to find in this ratio. It took me 6 months to find one. Dodge is out of them also. So don't waste your time calling.



If you have 3:08's. This rear axle is its own breed. No other gears will fit it. You can't use a 3:54 housing and put 3:08 gears in it. The 3:08's were not an option in the model 80"s. So a swap to an 80 rear axle will require a front axle swap also. The 3:08 front axle is the same as the rear. No interchange with the other gear ratio's.

 

[Lock93]

Very sorry to hear about your suprise.

Not sure what your intended use of the truck is, but another option not mentioned is to remove the dually fenders extensions and make it a crew SRW? Then you don't have to change the front, or worry about changing the rear. A decent body shop could you have fixed up for $500, a new set of tires/wheels and enjoy!



If you need/want the dually, then by all means, do it once and do it right. Sams advice above sounds great in that case.

 

[SteveMiller]

I agree with Sams as well. If money allows a dana 80 is the way to go. I have a 92 SRW and a 97 Dually if I can measure anything to assist let me know.



steve

 

[RSchwarzli]

Well,



I think what I am going to do is hold off a few months. This winter I think I will be doing a mini overhaul of the truck to fix a few things and at that time I will look into the axles and see what can be done. I might even do it right the first time and put in a second gen axle because I dont know how far I will endup BOMBing the truck. (As if any of you guys though you would have put so much power and money as you have into your trucks when you first bought the trucks) :-laf



Philip I am fortunet in the sense that I believe I have 3. 55s in it. The 3. 08's that you are refering to I am gussing you saw on my sig which is of the other truck. I gotta get around to adding the crew onto it.



As for the time being, I think I will keep my eyes open for a axle at a reasonable price and it has to be a dually as that was my dream as a kid (owning a dually) so that has to stay. But now the question is where can I find a new pair of adapters so I can still use the truck until I get to looking into the axle?



Robert



P. S. Steve, thanks for the offer, might have to take you up on it when I get to the axles in the winter.

 

["Mad Max"]

some links - not sure of any of it, but some starting places

Rob -



I have no idea of quality or prices or whatever, but here are some links to some adapters that may help. The stuff sure looks strong, wow... .



http://www.chromewheel.com/adaptors.htm

http://www.wheeladapter.com/DuallyAdapters.asp



After thinking about the front end... I'm not sure if there's a difference in the actual hubs/axles, but on my dually front there's a -big-honkin-adapter- 8-bolts on both ends, that extends the hub surface out far enough for a dually rim to fit correctly..... I dunno, but it looks like it's a standard Dana 60 front axle with an adapter from the factory... ??? Fellas, whadda ya think??? Is a standard Dana 60 front hub any different from a dually hub? Shoot, might just be the ticket for the front end and it just may be what the real deal is anyway. I'dunno, but it sure looks that way.

- S



- Sam

 

[RSchwarzli]

Perfect. That's just what I needed. Thanks. I tell ya, I think we need to nominate SamsRams as "First gen axle king". He knows all the answers to all the questions. That is NOT the same as a smarty pants.



Robert

 

["Mad Max"]

First gen axle king! I love it :-laf Well, I dunno about being the 'king', but I can tell ya that the Dana 80 I just got back from the diff shop out here, fully dissassembled, is one really big azz honkin' piece of steel. Scheesh it's big... and the gears look good to go. I'm having a new set of clutches and bearings tossed in just for good measure, and the housing/parts are getting the full sandblasting treatment followed by real paint, not the rattle bomb stuff. I've found that NAPA chassis black is some really easy stuff to spray, and man is it hard. Should look really good and will be easy to touch up.



- Sam