Cummins in 1500 4x4?

[tractorman]

Hello there. I'm looking for information to help me swap in a 6BT into my '97 Ram 1500... Pretty silly swap right? I keep getting told I'm nuts and just go buy a 2500 with a diesel... Well, I don't want or need a 2500 truck. Besides, my 1500 is enough truck for me, it's just under powered, with poor Mpg (360). . but it's in nice shape and it's paid for... . the engine is a little tired though. I mainly do a light towing (8000lbs max) and lots of highway driving(40,000/year). So here's my questions for you.



1. What engine series should I look for to fit my '97? The old 12 valve or the 24 valve? What about the next generation in the '03s?



2. How much should I expect to pay for a used engine? Would I be better off buying a rebuilt one?



3. Where should I look to buy? I was hoping to find a wrecked 2500 that I could buy for the engine, transmission and misc parts, but they seem to go for a lot of money ($6-$10 grandrepairables).



4. What other parts would I need besides the radiator, transmission and transfer-case from the donor truck?



5. How much does the engine weigh? Is there a website that gives the engine's dimensions?







Thanks in advance,



Tractorman



P. S. I'm in MN. I restore pickups and old tractors for a hobby, so this swap doesn't seem like it would be that hard.

 

[Batman]

Not to **** in your cherios, but you may want to reconsider. I don't think the front suspension of a 1500 will be able to support the weight of a Cummins for a long period of time without tearing through ball joints and other related parts.



Additionally, you need to think of the rest of the drivline: trans, rear-end. Brakes, cooling, computers, intercooler, brake booster (can't use vacuum pumps with a diesel)... ..... etc.



Too many parts needed, and too much work to make the swap justifyable, IMHO



HTH, sorry if you didn't want to hear it.

 

[benhall]

tractorman,



I'll agree with the others that have told you that this is a kinda silly conversion. Some of the things you would have to look at if you do decide to do this, is the very little things. For one, I don't think the axle shafts will be able to take the torque that is being applied to them. Second, you would be killing your front springs in a big way, since the CTD weighs quite a bit more than your 360.



IMO, you would be money ahead to go ahead and bite the bullet on a 2500. The ride quality of a 2500 is pretty close to a 1500.



Just my $. 02 worth.



Ben

 

[tractorman]

Don't worry, I have heard it all before. After seeing the 6bt in some scouts and other pickups, it can't be all that bad. Thanks for the list of parts I forgot though, I forgot about the vaccuum problem for the brake booster. . What about the 4bt?

 

[Steve Graham]

6BTA's out of a Dodge come with a vacume pump. Most trucks with 4BT's use a hydro-boost for the brakes.

Steve

 

[Hutchew]

6BT's have vac pumps............

and it looks the same as the ones used on first gen's w/ vac booster brakes, it is just plugged off for everything except the heater/ac controls and cruise control.

I would look for a 94 to 98. 5 12v motor, if HP is a factor, go for the 97-98. 5 5 speed motors, they push 215 stock. Cheapest way out for you is to find a truck hit hard in the rear or side that you can pull the engine, trans, wiring, pooter, etc out of. I don't know if the radiator core support is the same on all 2nd gen trucks or not, but you'll need that too if they're not, plus all the other stuff that goes with it.

Good luck. I don't think I would do it, but I would be the last to say it couldn't be done. I have 1 ton running gear under my truck and am having a hard time keeping it together.

 

[JPS]

convert 1500

I sent you e-mail. jps

 

[power grizz]

i was considering a 1500 swap also. i was thinking about doing a shortbox though. for mudracing where i need to loose a lot of weight, but have changed my ideas and found a 83 shortbox already on dana sixty axles. i had purchased a burnt 2500 for the axles and suspension and was planning on making a 3/4 ton shortbox. it would've been neat but couldnt find a shortbox at the time. so i settled on the 83.



tractorman,

i'll pm you, i may have some parts for you

 

[tractorman]

So you guys are saying that I will have to have the 3/4 ton axles and drive shafts swapped in, because the 1/2 ton stuff won't hold up? If the 5. 9 cummins is rated at 210 HP & 450ft-lbs, how is that different from hopping up my gas 5. 9 with a blower, cam and intake? I'd get a 300 hp, 400 ft-lbs of torque motor easy... only problem is I'd get 8MPG. Sure, I might brake an axle or drive shaft if I really hammered on it, but that's not me.



How much of a weight difference am I looking at engine wise? What if we swapped in a 6AT3. 4? What's the hop up potential of this motor?

 

[benhall]

Tractorman,



If you were to put your truck on a dyno and have graphs printed out, you would notice that you have most of your peak power, both torque and hp, at higher rpm's than what a CTD will have.

When you hit those peak numbers in a gas motor, the shafts, axles and all of the other moving parts are moving at a high rpm themselves. With the Cummins, or for that fact, any diesel, you put more stress on a part by putting more force on it at a lower speed, which is one reason why the '89's had a driveshaft problem.



I hope this sort of makes sense, but if you want me to clarify any of this, PM me.



Ben

 

[Hutchew]

Don't know the weights..........

But I'de guestimate it at around 900-1000 lbs, by the time you get the transmission, transfer case, intercooler, bigger radiator, exhaust, engine, etc. all stuffed into your 1500. Kinda like stickin' a Harley motor inna Schwinn bicycle, BUT it can be done, I'm sure.

I was big on hoppin' up 340's when I was a kid (20+ years ago), and yep, they will develop enough power to tear stuff up. Just not all day long, like a Cummins will.

I just bought a '97 2500 4x4, CTD Quadcab for 9500. 00. It has 176,000 miles on it. It was a good deal from a local salvage yard here, I had to put a bed on it and stuff the fuel tank back in (Don't ask me how they tore it out, looks like he ran over a big stump sideways..... ). I'm sure, even though you don't want the ride of a 3/4 ton truck, you could find a similar deal, and would probably save you thousands in the long run.

 

[Steve Graham]

Originally posted by tractorman

[B What if we swapped in a 6AT3. 4? What's the hop up potential of this motor? [/B]

I would suggest a late model 4BTA, with the inline pump. The potenital is as good as the 6BTA, all the cam plates for the pump will fit (I think) as will all the adapters, plus 1/3 less weight of the 6B. I think the power starts at 120 HP with 330 ft lbs for some of the CPLs on this engine.

The 6AT3. 4 is very hard to find, it's uses a prechamber in the combustion chamber, so the potential is not as great. And this engine has been out of production for a while, making parts harder to get.



MY vote is for the 4BTA

Steve

 

[tractorman]

Thanks to all with their information and opinions. One last question though. In what kind of trucks is the 4bta found? Does anyone Know of a vendor for new/rebuilt 4BTA engines?

 

[Philip]

In over the OTW apps. Then bread box vans are the most common trucks to have them installed in them.

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

tractorman,

Your 1500 chassis will turn to junk fast by putting a 6bt in it. The 2500 and 3500 trucks with a Cummins wipe out the entire front supension from 35,000 miles and up, a 1500 would be dead meat in a short period of time, not to mention the frame issues as well. The first thing I have noticed when I bought my 2nd gen is that the 4X4 front supension is JUNK compared to the old trusty 1st gens. Dodge made the 2nd gens ride better at the cost of the front end.



IF you wish to keep your current truck, look for a salvage roll over 2500 with no frame damage. Lift off your 97's sheet metal and drop it on the 2500's frame. You will also need the underhood wiring and ecm to make it work. Otherwise time to go shopping for a new truck. That sounds like a lot of work but it really isn't(I have done it serveral times now) Either way you will end up with a better truck.

Kyle

 

[thepitts]

Engines

Try this place for a engine http://www.enginecom.com/cd.htm click on the Cummins link. Also look at this site for new and used engines http://www.adelmans.com/

 

[jmincey]

CTD in 1500 4x4

Tractorman

I completed the conversion you wish to do all ready using a 97 CTD in a 95 4x4 short box and love it. Just use all the goodies out of a 2500 including trans transfer case. It all fits perfectly the only thing you have to work on is adapting the wireing. use the hydro brake booster from a 97 or later. If you want we can do some emailing and I can tell you the whole procedure. Use the front coils from the 2500 because the engine I got was complete and weighed 1180 lbs when shipped. use the np241 transfercase from a 2500 and you can use the stock drive lines with no modifications. My theory is as long as you do not try to tow a 30,000 lbs load it will be fine. Only when you put a big load on the truck will you stress the drive trane other wise all that torque is only moving the weight of the truck. The truck four wheels wonderfully as a matter of fact it climbs better than ever. it gets great fuel mileage and drives just fine. The conversion went so smooth it was like the engine was meant to be there all along. just stuff it in everything bolted up perfectly just remember to get everything from the intercooler to the tranfer case. use the old transmission cross member and transmission mount With a donor truck this conversion is so easy you will not have any problems and will only need stock parts for the 2500

jim

 

[tractorman]

jmincey

Hey Jmincey



check your PM messages for my e-mail. Thanks