Cummins or Hurricane?

[KCJackson1]

Stellantis finally made it official: the Hurricane 3.0L I-6 twin turbo gassers were announced today.

• Standard output is expected in the 400 hp/450 lb-ft range - 91+ octane recommended
• High output is expected in the 500 hp/475 lb-ft range - 91+ octane required

They will start off alongside the Hemis (5.7 and 6.4 respectively), but are expected to replace them in short order. Stellantis is claiming up to 15% reduction in CO2 emissions, and up to 15% increase in fuel economy for the standard-output version. Each turbo handles three of the six cylinders. The Ram 1500 is a definite, but it appears the HO is being groomed for the HD trucks, as Stellantis mentions concessions for heavy towing in the press release.

https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=23660&mid=1

 

[BigPapa]

Man, when I first read about this engine I thought it may just be good enough to make me consider a new truck (I’ve not bought a NEW truck since ‘91), but the need for 91 octane is a deal killer for me, especially with today’s prices.

 

[R.Taylor]

Hmmm... Def a candidate for a genuine Stellantis MaxCare warranty. Imagine having to work on one of those. Hopefully the younger crowd won't mod the exhaust on these... It will sound like a motorcycle. Just like the V6 modded exhaust crowd.... Sounds weird, Purring cat like sound.

 

[R.Taylor]

but the need for 91 octane is a deal killer for me, especially with today’s prices.

$6.50 is average, CA sucks, I paid $157 for 23 gallons of #2 last week.

 

[Wiredawg]

I had already read it, snorted it, and blew it put just as fast as it came in, but a somewhat different consistency.

 

[BigPapa]

Hopefully the younger crowd won't mod the exhaust on these... It will sound like a motorcycle. Just like the V6 modded exhaust crowd.... Sounds weird, Purring cat like sound.

Anybody else remember the sound of a 235 Chevy with a split manifold? They were sweet.

 

[Tuesdak]

Dual water-cooled exhaust manifolds integrated in the cylinder head ...

That is an INSANE amount of heat to drop into a/the cooling system and takes away from the turbo. I would be interested in how they limit the heat from that or are 3 cylinders steam powered?

The CHEAP Fleet Manager isn't going to want to use anything but the cheapest gasoline. The Driver getting paid less than the HD pickup is rented to the job site for: it's hard enough to get them to know the difference between Gasoline and Diesel with a SEPARATE HANDLE and Stellantis thinks this 91 octane is a good idea in a HD pickup? What button do I press out of the 4 or more here: "The same one I press for my 15 year old Honda, 87. (and 85 at altitude in some states they can get away with it.)" 91 Octane is no longer 10 cents per grade higher as I believe it's more expensive than Diesel for the 91, but, 87 is cheaper. Is it really 91 octane or is the dirty station owner selling the cheap stuff for higher prices?

The extreme heat out here makes Octane a big deal if you go too low. Engine limp mode or failure big of a deal.

 

[KCJackson1]

I agree about octane, Tuesdak. The standard-output engine in a Ram 1500, Jeep Wag/Grand Wag, any of the smaller trucks, or the Charger/Challenger will be just fine, and 87 is "acceptable". The people who would buy the Grand Wag 6.4 won't have an issue paying for premium after dropping 6 figures on the truck itself. But as a replacement for the 6.4 in the Ram HDs, 91 or more won't fly for the commercial buyers, nor a lot of consumers.

 

[Ozymandias]

If it is like any other european Engine it is rated at 91 but can run safely with 87 but with reduced power. The ECM adjusts for the lower octane fuel.
But that is guessing right now, not knowing.

 

[p-Bar]

My Hyundai Genensis is multi octane just detunes the engine as Ozy said

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

I have 2 major pickup requirements . 4x4 and a Cummins Diesel.

Anybody else remember the sound of a 235 Chevy with a split manifold? They were sweet.

Dang right! My 1st pickup was a 1959 Chevy Apache fleetside long bed. It had a worn out smoke making 235 I6. My Dad and me rebuilt it .060 over, Mallory ignition, chrome wheels with baby moons, and the split exhaust manifold. I actually rebuilt every system in that truck to factory specs while in auto shop for 3 years in HS. Damm nice truck, and it sounded great. It had the starter button on the floorboard too. Ahhh, the good ole' days.

 

[petersonj]

From Motortrend,

"The standard output Hurricane, Stellantis promises, will offer "more than 400 horsepower and more than 450 lb-ft of torque," at a max of 5,800 rpm. The high output variant will offer "more than 500 HP and more than 475 lb-ft of torque" at up to 6,100 rpm in their initial configurations."

"Engineers say the new engines maintain at least 90 percent of peak torque from 2,350 rpm all the way to redline."

Since the title of this thread is "Cummins or Hurricane?", I will mention what hasn't been mentioned - peak torque at a specific rpm. Personally, I don't care about horsepower. The Cummins engine peak torque output is right at 1600 rpm (some years at 1400 rpm). Not much horsepower there, but man does that torque get a heavy load moving easily and keeps that heavy load moving using low rpms, even in the hills. Not going to happen with a Hurricane engine, especially if coupled with a manual transmission. Of course, a manual transmission probably won't be offered anyway.

Also, to me, driving a vehicle with high engine rpms just to stay in the powerband just makes noise and is annoying.

@KCJackson1 , if you add a checkbox that says, "I will stay with Cummins because I like high torque output at low rpms", I will check that box.

- John

 

[Newsa]

Will a Hurricane have a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty and an expected life of 300,000-700,000 miles?

 

[AH64ID]

HP and torque are equally as important. Torque gets stuff moving, hp is how fast you can move it. There is no time associated with a torque measurement, but there is for hp.

Torque can be multiplied thru gearing but hp cannot, so hp is very important. Diesel as the advantage of not needing as much gearing reduction so it really gets things moving easier, but if it didn’t have enough hp you wouldn’t be going anywhere fast.

 

[SnoKing]

If it is like any other european Engine it is rated at 91 but can run safely with 87 but with reduced power. The ECM adjusts for the lower octane fuel.
But that is guessing right now, not knowing.

My 2021 2.7L Ecoboost is that way along with my 2021 Kawasaki KRX 1000 SxS and my 2018 Can Am Spyder RTL all make adjustments for the fuel octane.

 

[AH64ID]

My 03 4Runner does the same thing with octane, but it still only has one power rating.

Reading the SO/HO differences on the Hurricane tell me that it’s a lot more than jus reprogramming. There are hard part differences.

 

[petersonj]

HP and torque are equally as important.

I will agree they are equally important, if the horsepower rating is in the useable and practical rpm range for operating the engine.

For example, the engine in my truck is rated 505 lb/ft torque at 1600 rpm and 245 hp at 2900 rpm. Since I have never approached 2900 rpm in any situation even with heavy loads, this 245 hp @ 2900 rpm horsepower rating is not important to me. But, the high torque rating at low rpm is very important to me.

- John

 

[AH64ID]

I will agree they are equally important, if the horsepower rating is in the useable and practical rpm range for operating the engine.

For example, the engine in my truck is rated 505 lb/ft torque at 1600 rpm and 245 hp at 2900 rpm. Since I have never approached 2900 rpm in any situation even with heavy loads, this 245 hp @ 2900 rpm horsepower rating is not important to me. But, the high torque rating at low rpm is very important to me.

- John

The hp matters at any, and every, rpm range. As stated only hp has a time consideration in its rating. Something that does 1,000 lb/ft of tq at 1 hp is nearly useless. But something at that does 1,000 lb/ft at 400 hp is incredibly useful.

As soon as you associate a relative rpm band with torque you are talking about hp, even if you don’t mention or think about hp. There is a direct correlation of hp to tq. At 2626 rpm 1 HP:2 lb/ft. At 5252 rpms 1HP:1 lb/ft. At 10,504 rpm 1 HP:.5 lb/ft. So that 505 lb/ft means a lot when it’s associate with an rpm, as that tells you the hp it’s making.. which is 153 hp at 1600 rpms.

FWIW the current HO makes 368 hp at peak torque. That’s a lot of work being done at a very fast rate.

 

[brucejohnson]

Anybody else remember the sound of a 235 Chevy with a split manifold? They were sweet.

As was the Chrysler slant six. Especially when "slightly" modified with a super cam, custom built split exhaust manifold, 4bbl intake and carb, with other fun goodies. Thank you JC Whitney and Raudenbush Auto Supply in downtown Olympia. (George had, or could source anything automotive very quickly). In 1967 my neighbor and I tinkered with his 60 Valiant. (a rarity - no dents on the back end of the trunk lid!) Surprised a lot of the "beefed" Chevy V8 crowd when, with a sweet, balanced exhaust bark, it left them in the dust.

 

[Claude15]

The hp matters at any, and every, rpm range. As stated only hp has a time consideration in its rating. Something that does 1,000 lb/ft of tq at 1 hp is nearly useless. But something at that does 1,000 lb/ft at 400 hp is incredibly useful.

As soon as you associate a relative rpm band with torque you are talking about hp, even if you don’t mention or think about hp. There is a direct correlation of hp to tq. At 2626 rpm 1 HP:0.5 lb/ft. At 5252 rpms 1HP:1 lb/ft. At 10,504 rpm 1 HP:.5 lb/ft. So that 505 lb/ft means a lot when it’s associate with an rpm, as that tells you the hp it’s making.. which is 153 hp at 1600 rpms.

FWIW the current HO makes 368 hp at peak torque. That’s a lot of work being done at a very fast rate.

10504 rpm @ 1hp = 2 lb/ft ?