Custom Heavy-Duty Air Intake System

[Archive]

For those interested in an alternative to the stock air filtration system and the Scotty system, I am currently working on a heavy-duty set up. Here's what's involved...

The installation is somewhat complex because I relocate the passenger's side battery to the frame rail of the truck. All that is needed is longer cables and a battery tray or battery box. The stock air box is also removed. In their place, I will be using a Baldwin PA-3891 Microlite air filter in a disposable housing. The dimensions for the air filter are 9. 78" in diameter by 19. 78" long (cylindrical). On one end is a 6" diameter inlet, and there is a 6" outlet on the side of the housing. This is a big air filter designed for Cummins L10 engines, Cat excavators, and large diesel engines.

The area below the stock battery tray contains two, small electric horns. Those will be relocated (easy). A 7" diameter hole saw will be used to cut a hole in the horizontal panel that the horns were mounted to. A 6", 90 degree head pipe from the intake of the air filter will be run through the 7" hole, behind the bumper to a ram air intake. The ram air is made from plastic, has a 90 turn so that is will be parallel with the ground, and has an 8" x 3" rectangular intake. If you look at a cabover semi, you'll see this right-angle intake just above and behind the cab. A rectangular cutout in the air dam will facilitate the opening. This set up should draw cold air from the highest pressure point on the vehicle, the front. If you are concerned about additional debris or water intake, then end the intake behind the protection of the bumper. The air is still cooler there, and is out of the engine compartment. I will fabricate custom bracketry to hold the cylindrical air filter on the right-front wheel well. A 6" to 4" reducer will be used to connect the air cleaner housing to the turbo's compressor.

For those of you interested in this heavy-duty setup, please let me know. I am in the developing stages now and will have this set up available for sale for those interested. I am not making any claims for reduction of EGTs, extra turbo whine, or more power, but I am assuring you will get better filtration than the factory panel air filter and the air filter is capable of handling higher boost demands from the turbo. If you look at a Cummins 5. 9 on a FL70, you won't see a small air box like what's on the Ram. You'll probably see one of these heavy-duty units. Thanks for your interest.

-Michael

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

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Michael, I think you're on the right track. I like the idea of using a filter other than a K&N. The thought had crossed my mind of using a larger filter. Keep us posted .

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I am changing my mind about using such a large, mammoth filter as the one I previously described. My new plan is as follows:

Relocate the passenger's side battery to where the stock air box is, but turn the battery sideways. Add an 8" diameter by 13" long air filter (catalogs are on the way from Nelson and Baldwin) that is housed in a plastic cylinder. The filter/housing rests on the right-front wheel well. The filter housing has a 5" inlet on the front end, and a 5" outlet on the side. A 5" diameter header pipe will connect from the filter, make a downward right angle through the sheet metal where the horns are located, to behind the front bumper. The intake will remain behind the front bumper, but will have a nozzle on the end to direct more air into the header pipe. Custom bracketry will bolt onto the wheel well to hold the air box, and a custom battery tray will hold the newly relocated battery. Only 2-3 ft of cable will need to be extended to connect to the battery.

This procedure keeps everything under the hood and is simple to do. You get great, heavy-duty filtration plus cold air induction from behind the front bumper. A variety of filters are available from Donaldson, Wix, Nelson, Baldwin, but sorry, not K&N.

Here are the web addresses for some of the heavy-duty filter sites you might find interesting...
www.wixfilters.com www.baldwinfilter.com www.nelsondiv.com www.donaldson-filters.com

Let me know if you're intersted...

-Michael
ASME,SAE,ASHRAE

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...


[This message has been edited by MichaelT (edited 02-09-2000). ]

[This message has been edited by MichaelT (edited 02-09-2000). ]

 

[Archive]

Michael,

A thought on the battery issue, it looks like it wouldn't be too difficult to install a set of Optimas under the bed on the passenger side, outside the frame. It would clear up some space under the hood, and move 100+ pounds from the front to the rear. I want to do this next fall when my orig. batteries will be ready to go #ad


Vaughn

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1998 3/4T Quad Cab 4x4, 24-valve, 5-speed w/3. 54 rear, White over Driftwood, Fog Lamps, Air Dam, Agate leather with most options.
Bosch RV Injectors
245/75/16 Kelley Safari MSRs on M/T Classics, DeeZee running boards, diamond tread bedrail & tailgate protector.
56,910 miles (2/09/00)

 

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Vaughn,

I had considered doing this, but it would increase the price of the conversion by nearly $350 plus extra length in cables$$$. Optimas are not cheap, but at least they're maintenance free. I wouldn't put regular lead batteries on the frame rail, as it would be too difficult to service them. Thanks for the suggestion, though. I can't wait to try out the new system, but it will probably be five to six weeks.

-Michael
ASME,SAE,ASHRAE

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

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Is there any way to not touch the batteries & draw cool air from up front? That cool air from up front helps. That coupled with a larger air filter, K&N or not, should help.

 

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MichaelT,
I won't pretend to be an expert with air induction, however I was under the impression that an air intake at the base of the windshield would in fact be an area of both higher pressure air and cooler air.

I imagine the reason the stock systems never go that way is due to water intake.

So, if one managed to keep rain water out of such an intake, I don't see why the Scotty setup (plus a box porting it below the wipers) would not work just as well as what you are doing. The added bonus being not having to move the battery(s).

Now having said that I have considered the optima relocation but only for the weight issue. Unfortunatly the stock batteries just won't die... . #ad


Both ideas have merit, so I will keep watching your project's progress. Good Luck

 

[Archive]

Since the engine is operating under forced induction (turbocharged), a forced air intake is not critical to performance. Ambient air intake temperature is. I looked into David's request to take air in from the base of the windshield, but there are several limiting factors: (1) possible water injection since water will be swept back from the hood (2) it is a high source of pressure, but not as high as the very front of the bumper (3) and most importantly, it would require possible intrusion into the structural crossmember to avoid removing a portion of the hood.

Personally, I don't see a big deal in relocating the passenger's side battery. You will need a battery tray and to lengthen the battery cables a maximum of 3 feet. Not a hard job. The problem I have with the placing a K&N RE-0880 filter in the stock filter location is that the filter is not protected from moisture, dust, heat, etc. By using a filter housed inside a cylindrical canister, it is protected. I suppose you could even wrap the cylindrical air filter housing in reflective insulation to prevent heat from entering the air box, which should keep the intake temperature cool.

The way the air system works is that air is drawn in from behind the right section of the front bumper through a 5" diameter header pipe pointing down with a nozzle on the end to improve air flow. As air flows under the air dam or bumper, it swirls to the low pressure zone directly behind the bumper where the intake pipe is located, but still protected. Air then enters into the end cap of the cylindrical air filter housing. See the image of the Balwin filter at http://www.baldwinfilter.com/products/9905.htm
Look at filter PA3891. Although the image shows a 9" diam. x 20" filter, the filter unit I plan to use is only 8" diam. x 13" in a plastic, not disposable housing (although disposable can be available).

If I can get enough people interested, I will offer a kit, which will include a battery tray, cable extensions, filter, filter housing, filter brackets, header pipe, and instructions. Post on this BB so that I can get an idea whether it will be worth the effort (other than for my own personal gratification).

I am a degreed mechanical engineer who will do a thorough design of the components and system. If all checks out well, this will be a high quality, heavy-duty filtration unit.

Another thing to remember is that there is a wide selection of air filter elements available for the specific housing I will be using. Air filter elements that range from excavators to city delivery trucks to over the road trucks. The effective filtration will not be a primary investigation, as the multimillion dollar companies have already exerted the efforts. I am looking forward to this heavy duty addition to my, and possibly our trucks.

-Michael
ASME,SAE,ASHRAE

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

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Like I said, I am not an expert, thanks for giving it a few minutes of investigation.

So, if I were interested in your virtual product, could it address my environment which is typically deep snow or dirt roads?

I spend 70-80% of running time off the asphalt and am concerned about dust injestion and/or catching things below my bumper.



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99QC4x4SB5SPD Fabritech traction bars on order, some stealth mods
78 Moto-Ski 400 refurb keeps the RAM from playing in the snow
Green Monster's cyber garage

 

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Also be aware there is a guy in Utah who has a ram air system available for our trucks. It has two air scoops on the new hood, one goes to a new airbox and one goes to the intercooler. I may be able to email you a pic, but I suggest you call Doug Holfedt at 1 208 232-2469. Ken Jones at HotDiesel tipped me off to this item. He is also in Utah.

 

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Since a few of you are real warm on what and how my air induction works I'll describe it some now since the patent apps are in.
My system does draw air from the bottom of the windshield and is safe from rain because of the way it is installed. It is recessed and flanged.
The K&N RE:0880 filter mounts into a two pc molded unit that funnels the air from the cowel via a 4. 5 inch hole [which is larger then the turbo inlet hose]. I did testing of spraying water with high velocity fans towards the induction unit and I got a nice surprise... the moisture was forced to the sides in a spiralling motion. Lots of air flows into this unit.
I tried several different approaches to this and this final design begins production tomorrow. This system also shields the air from the heat of the engine and the turbo.
Its is very easy to install and easy to service and access the filter.
The filter is cradled and centered inside the induction unit. It matches the piece that goes along the bottom of the windshield.

The kit will be available as soon as I get my packaging finalized. Very probable it will be released before month end now. No scavenging of the air supply to the heater and AC is evident, nor is there any noticable increase in cab noise.

I will post a link of pix, install instructions and prices ASAP.

SCOTT
BOMBS away



[This message has been edited by scott1 (edited 02-13-2000). ]

 

[Archive]

Psychotty Air WORKS...

We did tests on the Grapevine in California, and found EGT's to be up to 175 degrees cooler with the Psychoty Air. Scott's truck had the PA on it, and mine had just the original Scotty Air.

Places where I was running 800 degrees EGT, he would be running about 625-650 EGT. On level raod, there was not much difference between the two.

I think some intake air temps need to be taken... Scotty, are you up to some field research?

BOMBING AND RESEARCHING


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Evan A. Beck
Prez, NW BOMBers

98. 5 2500, 4x2, RC, ISB, A/T, SLT, 3. 54 LSD, Trailer tow, Aux. suspension, Forest Green/Driftwood, 54,625 miles, 02/08/00

4" "PIPE BOMB"--straight piped exhaust split into duals, with 4" x 20" chrome tips one on each side after the wheels, Jacobs E-Brake, K&N Filter (Scotty style), Auto-Meter Ultra Lite boost & pyro, turbo silencer ring removed, OEM foglamps, OEM roof marker lights, OEM 1-ton tailgate marker lamps, 6-way amber turn signal conversion, Sylvania Cool Blue® 9004 headlamp bulbs, Husky diamond plate toolbox, Line-X spray-in bedliner, Mag-Hytec rear end cover, painted exhaust manifold and turbine housing, and E-Brake elbow, plus other cosmetic modifications

2001 ETH DEE 2500 4x2 QC SB ordered 02/06/00

"I'd Rather be RAMMIN' than STROKIN'"

"Journeyman B. O. M. B. Member"

Ground Zero--BOMB Page

 

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Scott,
Can you give us a ballpark price?? Time and difficulty of install??
Jack

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1997 4x4, 3. 54 rear, 5 spd, red, vinyl floors.
Banks Stinger Plus, BD 4" cat back (minus muffler), K&N (not Scotty YET!), Delvac 1, Lund cold front, Shelf-it overhead storage system, CB mounted overhead like the BIG rigs!
Pull Trailswest 2 horse slant, 1972 8' Bell slide in camper (heavy son of a gun), Sylvan 1750 jon with 60/45 Merc. Jet prop, and one great hunting Black Lab

 

[Archive]

It will take approximately 1/2-1hr to install from opening the box to hitting the road. Its not hard to do. The price will be in the range of 150. 00.
That will be a delivered price with thorough install instructions and pix as well as a link to a web page that will have the info too.
I'll release all the info as soon as the production is in full swing.
I am learning lots about designing and building stuff like this. Its kind of fun.


Hope this helps.

SCOTT
workin on other BOMB stuff.
glad I am not married cuz that would not last too long.

 

[Archive]

Scott, sounds like a nice system. So, what's the max CFM of the RE-0880 air filter? I am curious of the air restriction at various flow rates. K&N must offer a chart of flow rate vs. restriction, although I haven't seen one. The web site www.knairfilters.com only gives horsepower ratings, but I doubt that is using forced induction.

To change the subject from the Psychotty air, I received one of the catalogs I sent off for. I recieved the Fleetgaurd/Nelson (Cummins owned) catalog, which includes various air filters and housings. What has me baffled are the small flow rates of the huge air cleaners. The section I am referencing is:

(quote)
Metal, high flow air cleaners
* Typically highway truck, school and transit buses, and light industrial equipment
* Element initial efficiency (clean filter) 99. 2% minimum per SAE J726 test specifications
* Overall air cleaner efficiency 99. 86% minumum per SAE J726 test specifications
* For use in vertical and horizontal applications

Nelson Part No. 71071N
Replacement Element 70471N
Body Diam. 10. 10"
Length 20. 9"
Inlet Size 6. 00"
Outlet Size 6. 00"
Air Flow @ 6 "H20 Restriction 805 CFM
Air Flow @ 10 "H20 Restriction 1050 CFM

Nelson Part No. 71227N
Replacement Element 70472N
Body Diam. 11. 81"
Length 20. 26"
Inlet Size 7. 00"
Outlet Size 6. 00"
Air Flow @ 6 in. Restriction 825 CFM
Air Flow @ 10 "H20 Restriction 1075 CFM

(end Quote)


I am listing these two models because I think they have the most application to the Ram/BTA5. 9. I would like to show some calculations that should be used when sizing an air filter:

Max CFM = (max RPM)*(displacement)*(boost in atmospheres)

displacement of 5. 9L = . 20836 cubic feet
boost in atm = 1 atm + [(boost - 14. 7 psi) / 14. 7 psi]

Example 1 (stock engine):
(3200 RPM)*(. 208 ft3)*(20psi = 1. 361 atm) = 906 CFM

Example 2 (slightly modifie engine):
(3200)*(. 208 ft3)*(30 psi = 2. 04 atm) = 1359 CFM

Example 3 (HVAC, Piers, Joe Donnelly caliber):
(3200)*(. 208 ft3)*(45 psi = 3. 062 atm) = 2038 CFM


Now, take a look at the filter specs above...
10. 1" diam. filter that's nearly 21" long only has a capacity of 1050 CFM at 10 "H20.
If you extrapolate the given graph (in catalog) for a flow rate of 1400 CFM, the flow restriction would be around 15. 6 "H20.

I chose 1400 CFM for the reason below:
RPM = 3200, allowed boost = 30. 5 psi.
RPM = 2800, allowed boost = 35 psi.

This is important, since many modified engines are producing between 30-35 psi. Just remember, if you are running your engine at these boost levels and RPM, you are not operating at the operating efficiency of the air filter. Therefore, you could easily be letting dirt into the engine.

K&N comes to mind when thinking about letting dirt in and pulling oil through the filter. I can see where operating your high horsepower engine at high RPMs could do this. Think BIG!

I know it's not easy to install such a large air filter, but you have to remember you are not operating the engine in the same manner the Dodge/Cummins engine was designed for. Just as a larger turbo, or larger fuel lines, or larger injectors are necessary to ensure long life in a turned up engine, so is the necessity for proper air filtration.

I find it kind of odd that a K&N RE-0880 air filter (dimensions 6" diam x 13" long tapered) has the same flow rate or better than a 10. 1" diam. x 21" long cylindrical air filter with 6" inlets and outlets. I would bet that the RE-0880 has a large pressure drop at high flow rates. Nothing against K&N (I don't own one), but it just doesn't make sense.

I know there are many out there that believe K&N hung the moon, and you'll never use anything else. Just remember, Nelson is an OEM manufacturer, which is difficult to achieve. They have high standards, are ISO9002 certified, and are used by many, many big rigs. You want to run like the big rigs, then use what the big rigs use.

Hope this helps those out there who are confused. You just need to make your own decision, and don't jump on the band wagon.

BTW, I don't plan on patenting any of the ideas I come up with. That's why I'm sharing my ideas with everyone. I also don't plan to line my pockets with any of the suggestions I have presented. Please take this information as you will and have fun enjoying your pride and joy.

Regards,
Michael
SAE,ASME,ASHRAE

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

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So, Michael, where does the stock Mopar (or Fleetguard) filter fit into the airflow calculations you made? For example, the Scourge of the Desert is wastegated to 45 psi, runs the Mopar filter, goes up to 4000 rpm, and immediately pulls the filter minder to 20" (without the collar to the fender). What filter should the Scourge Rams be running, according to your calculations? I realize that the accuracy of the filter minder is probably in the "approximate" category.

 

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Well put MichaelT. I have waited for K&N to reply... nothing yet. Since I laid out the dough to have the molds built for this induction system I felt it be in my best interest to assure myself that the folks manufacturing the mold would not 'leak' this to a friend or something and simply copy it at my expense. Hence the patent.

The choice for the K&N is simplicity for the folks that already have the RE:0880 filter... like myself and several others.
Kind of a cost savings if someone was to go this route with the re:0880 in hand already.

I also have a few folks that have contributed some technical help on this unit. Especially with the filter application.

I kept this very simple and easy.

SCOTT
BOMB the way you see fit... BOMB smart

 

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Michael T,
Am I to assume that you do not feel that the PsyScotty is worth it? I am impressed with your feelings towards the Nelson filters and your knowledge of numbers and stuff. I, myself and one of those stupid people that would rather have a field tested product than a theorized one. I appreciate your knowledge, but sometimes knowledge isn't anything. Trial and error testing is.

I am also impressed that Nelson is an OEM and ISO compliant, butr if you really knew how easy that were to become on certain levels, you wouldn't be impressed.

And if Scott wants to patents and line his pockets, unlike you stated for yourself, why the hell in the post above did you say, I quote

"If I can get enough people interested, I will offer a kit, which will include a battery tray, cable extensions, filter, filter housing, filter brackets, header pipe, and instructions. Post on this BB so that I can get an idea whether it will be worth the effort (other than for my own personal gratification).

I am a degreed mechanical engineer who will do a thorough design of the components and system. If all checks out well, this will be a high quality, heavy-duty filtration unit.


I am also impressed with the fact that you are so smart, you can't remeber what you previously posted. Book smart don't mean street smart and people like you really piss me off.

Keep the faith Scott.


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96 Long bed EC, Banks Twin Ram, BD TC, BD EB, BD VB, Mag Hytec Pans, Warn 8000# winch, TJM Bull Bar, Speedliner, Katzkin Leather kit, K&N Filter, Trailmaster 2" Lift, 35BFG ATKO's, Kodiak Sidewinder Steps, Reflexion Cowl Hood, Autometer Guages, Horton Clutch Fan, PIAA Superwhites, Optima Red Tops, BD Pressureloc, BD Torquloc and Espar coming Soon.

 

[Archive]

I appologize to the TDR members for Wade's flaming and ignorant response. It doesn't piss me off that he disagrees.

Wade,
I will address several of your mundane comments.

1. quote: "Am I to assume that you do not feel that the PsyScotty is worth it?"

Re: First of all, I think Scott shows commendable effort in putting together a production system. That's a lot of work. I also think his k&n approach is valid for those that do not want to put forth a great amount of time and effort to reconfigure the air filtration. I do not feel it is the best, but perhaps the best bang for the buck. Wade, if you'll read the first sentence of my first post you will see that this addresses those that are in search of an "alternative" to the stock or Scotty air system. I cannot make a comment on the RE-0880 system when I don't even know what the flow rate vs. restriction is, or what filtration effectiveness is? Nelson does provide it.

2. quote: "I am impressed with your feelings towards the Nelson filters and your knowledge of numbers and stuff. "

Re: First of all, I don't have any feelings toward Nelson filters. I have listed several models that could be used in the Ram. I just got my first catalog. The "knowledge of numbers and stuff" I guess is what makes me an engineer. I suppose "numbers and stuff" also gets men to the moon and missles in the air, huh?

3. You quote: "I, myself and one of those stupid people that would rather have a field tested product than a theorized one. I appreciate your knowledge, but sometimes knowledge isn't anything. Trial and error testing is. "

Re: Fleetguard/Nelson filters, who is owned by Cummins, is not a theorized air cleaner system. They use them in many, many big rigs. Wade, if you want to continue to look like a fool, go ask the next 100 truckers what model K&N filter they're using in their diesel rig.

I guess you hit the nail on the head with this one, "I, myself and one of those stupid people... "

4. quote: "Book smart don't mean street smart and people like you really piss me off"

Re: Great grammar there. You also need to control your temper. About the "book smart don't mean street smart... ", I develop automated robotic machinery for high production disc drive manufacturing. I have to think hard every day, solve problems every day, and be creative every day. What does "street smart" have to do with suggesting an alternative air filtration system? Your choice of words befuddle me.

5. I am designing my own air filtration kit for my own self gratification. If others would like me to put together a kit similiar to what I have, I will get one together for them. I don't have the time to do all the welding and fabrication for any kind of production. I am attending graduate school part-time, focusing my Ph. D in controls engineering (something Wade won't understand). I thought it would be pretty easy to put together four or five units for my fellow TDR members that are interested. I had prefer people follow their own decisions and make their own.

6. "Keep the faith Scott. "

Re: I am not trying to take any business from Scott, but offering an alternative idea. Oh yeah, Wade wipe the brown off your nose.


I really don't know why I'm responding to your hot-headed reply. I've noticed you've replied similary to several other people. We don't need that kind of attitude in this organization.

Kind regards,
Michael

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

[Archive]

Hi Joe,
I would say that if you're running 45 psi (that's 3 atm) at 4000 RPM with the stock filter, you're experiencing two thing:
(1) High pressure drop across the air filter
(2) Poor effective filtration

I would imagine that you don't operate your engine at that extreme operation often for any period of time. Therefore, you could get by with a smaller filter than what I'm calculating below. Oops, guess I shouldn't theorize or calculate, but should do this through trial and error #ad


Here's what I have for you "Scourge of the Desert" (4000 rpm)*(. 208 ft3)*(3. 06 atm) = 2547 CFM. You better look at twin Vortox's for the low pressure restriction. I suppose you could fit them on the frame rails with a stack up the back of the cab (opposite to the 6" exhaust stack) and plumb them into the engine compartment. #ad


However, if you are willing to operate at a higher pressure drop (and compromise), you could make calculations as the following:

(3200 RPM)*(. 208 ft3)*(3. 06 atm) = 2038 CFM

Extrapolating the Nelson graph gives 26 "H20. I would imagine two possibilities for your current set up. One, the filter minder is not accurate (highly probable), and two, air is forced through the pleated filter so hard that it is pulling air and particle through. The graphs I am using are at specified filtration effectiveness. I suppose you could pull 2000 CFM through an equivalent 1. 53 in2 pipe #ad
and filter, but would experience awful filtration effectiveness.

Take care Doc,
Michael

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'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...