Dana 80 Ugly Oil

[Shelby Griggs]

Had the gearboxes all drained and filled last week, all visually looked good except the Dana 80. Lots of metal on magnet and oil looked very nasty. Running Schaffer 75w-140 full synthetic. Only about 22K miles (three years) with both axles and transmission, transfer case only about 7500 miles, but I wanted them all on same schedule. I run around 8000 pounds all the time but never over about 13k GCVW.

I have had nasty oil almost every time out of the rear axle, including IIRC the OEM fill and then Amsoil for a while and now the Schaffer. Been trying to keep rear axle change at 30-50k, nasty oil at 22k seems to indicate a tear down.

Truck has 320K, I am original owner and the rear axle was rebuilt once about 100K ago, additionally have had at least one wheel bearing replaced and a pinion seal + wheel seals since that rebuild. I notice the pinion seal is shot again too.

This Dana 80 seems to be the anomaly, but mine has give more issues than any other mechanical issue on the truck.

I am going to have a local shop tear into it again or optionally drive 300 miles to Randy's

I am thinking there may be something inherently wrong with my axle from the factory and thus consideration of a specialty shop taking a crack at it.

FYI, Torque King recommends about 125k-150k as bearing intervals on the Dana 80. Apparently the Cummins hammers them out and I expect mine has beat out bearings. Attached is a photo of one of my OEM center carrier bearings that was replaced at the 1st rebuild about 100k miles ago.

 

[NIsaacs]

365k miles on my '01, towing heavy the last 10 years. Change every 36k miles with 85w/140 conventional. Oil is always clean. I think GAmes has over a million on his.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Today I looked at my maintenance records:

If there was any work prior to 189805 I didn't see it listed.

189805 replaced real wheel bearings
198365 replaced RR wheel seal
212903 replaced LR wheel seal and pinion seal
222462 replaced at least center section side bearings (basically entire rear axle apart, not sure what else was replaced) photo of one of those bearings in initial post
240600 replaced rear axle seals
267060 replaced RR wheel bearing
298003 replaced LR wheel bearing
307579 replaced pinion seal
308019 replaced pinion seal again due to leaking (installer error?)
312022 replaced RR wheel seal
312214 replaced RR wheel seal again due to leaking (installer error?)
320xxx currently and probably needs another rebuild and for sure a pinion seal

Seems like a lot of issues for a fairly lightly loaded dana 80! never been over about 13k truck and trailer. I am thinking maybe initial failure had a lot of metal that wasn't removed and replacement seals and bearing are continuing to get wiped out due to wear metals or destroyed surfaces.

 

[BigPapa]

I don’t see where the pinion bearings were replaced. Usually they’re the first to go. With all the other bearings being replaced, the looks of that carrier bearing, and no mention of replacing the gears, I’d say you need a good FULL rebuild, ALL bearings AND gears. All that metal from those bearings and races has had to eat those gears. Proper setup, which is an art, is the key. The lube you’ve used isn’t your problem.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

I don’t see where the pinion bearings were replaced. Usually they’re the first to go. With all the other bearings being replaced, the looks of that carrier bearing, and no mention of replacing the gears, I’d say you need a good FULL rebuild, ALL bearings AND gears. All that metal from those bearings and races has had to eat those gears. Proper setup, which is an art, is the key. The lube you’ve used isn’t your problem.

I tend to agree. They might of done the pinion bearings and wheel ends at time of "rebuild" about 100k ago, BUT my notes only mention carrier bearings, would need to go to file cabinet and dig to find out what all was done. I know for a fact no gears were replaced. There has been a howl at 45 mph since they had it apart for those carrier bearings, so assuredly didn't get the gears quite right, but I do understand hard to do on used gears.

I am bracing for a $3k+ cost on this!

 

[Ozymandias]

This time better choose someone that has an idea how to do an axle.
To mess up a quiet axle just with the plain basic bearing change and give it back howling to the customer- i'd would have returned it for warranty after the first then miles.
No way this is allowed to happen. Never.

If the gears are changed too, that's a different story then, more knowledge needed for this, but bearings... every apprentice can do that right. Especially on the Dana Axle with the shims all around, there is no guesswork involved.

 

[GAmes]

FYI, Torque King recommends about 125k-150k as bearing intervals on the Dana 80.

They want to sell bearings. The D80 I have is the only original piece of the drivetrain. I've replaced the pinion seal three times and the axle seals twice, nothing else. I haven't driven it in the snow this year but last winter the anti-spin still functioned as designed. I use royal purple 85W140 and have beeen changing it at about 75k intervals but after sending in an oil sample for the first time a few months ago I'm going to 100k.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

They sell parts for sure, but the owner there has decades of experience. Mine isn't the only one to eat bearings, photos on the web page there of others.

What I don't understand is why some do and some don't eat bearings? I think mine must of had an issue from day one, bearings were all getting hammered long before I ever had a shop touch it. I think at that point either metal was still in housing or they did crappy work leading to repeated additional bearing and seal failures. I guess parts kept getting replaced, but in hindsight I suspect there were bigger underlying conditions causing that.

I have tried to take care of mine with good oil and frequent changes, but still lots of issues. Had I known bearings were getting trashed from day one, I might of been able to get warranty, maybe even a replacement axle, but that is water under the bridge at this point

 

[BigPapa]

A couple of questions. Does your truck sit a lot? Does it have the OE cover on it?

 

[Shelby Griggs]

A couple of questions. Does your truck sit a lot? Does it have the OE cover on it?

In more recent years it has had less annual use for sure. Average is about 15k a year since new, but early years were seeing more like 30k per year. It has had a Mag Hytech for a number of years, maybe 15 or so?

I switched from the Amsoil because the diff was somehow getting water inside.

No, I did not go in deep water, I have driven the truck personally all 320xxx miles. I bet shops and my wife haven't put more than 100 miles since new.

The vent hose is way up high, terminates at least a foot above top of axle and still has factory cap.

The only thing I could figure is the Amsoil lube was absorbing moisture from heating and cooling cycles (condensation)? At least once after I had the Mag Hytech, when pulling plug the first thing out was a noticeable amount of water when I was still running the Amsoil Severe Gear lube.

Since changing to Schaffer 75w-140 synthetic I don't see the water, I don't know if it is a coincidence or something else? This last drain at 320xxx had very dirty looking oil and lots of metal on the Mag Hytech plug but no visible water, the shop saved a small container of the drained fluid from both axles, the transmission and the transfer case, I visually inspected all four oil samples, only the rear axle looked hammered.

I would have to look up records on oil change frequency in the axle, BUT I do know I have gone through TWO five-gallon pails of the Schaffer since switching and just ordered a new one for the upcoming axle tear down. I would say it has been no more than 50k intervals and more like 30k intervals since the first rebuild about 100k ago.

 

[BigPapa]

I switched from the Amsoil because the diff was somehow getting water inside.

At least once after I had the Mag Hytech, when pulling plug the first thing out was a noticeable amount of water

That's exactly what I was looking for. Water will condense in any space filled with air. There's a lot, relatively speaking, of "empty" space in an axle assembly for water to condense. I don't think the lube you're using has anything to do with it.

Condensation is a huge problem in old tractor transmissions and hydraulic systems where there's a lot of air in a heavy cast iron case. I had an old Oliver Super 55 that I could NOT keep water out of the hydraulics. I could change the fluid and in a month it would look like milk from the water condensing.

This may not be your problem and I don't know of any way to prevent it. It may be a combination of the water, worn bearings, and worn gears causing a viscous cycle of eating themselves.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

I live in Central Oregon and have for the entire life of the truck. It is a high desert climate (annual precipitation 11"), short of a real desert climate it can't be much drier. Sure I drive to other areas in the PNW that are wetter, but not for months at a time. Why my axle would collect moisture with others don't seem to is a bit of a mystery.

Will see what it looks like once apart, thinking take all the bits out down the housing, make darned sure it is cleaned of everything and then put as many needed new parts as necessary. That will for sure be all bearings and seals, BUT I am considering new R&P too if any question, what's another $1200?

 

[BigPapa]

I would replace the gears and all bearings, and if it's a LSD, I'd rebuild it, too. It will need complete setup, so you'll need a tech that knows what he's doing.

 

[Shelby Griggs]

I would replace the gears and all bearings, and if it's a LSD, I'd rebuild it, too. It will need complete setup, so you'll need a tech that knows what he's doing.

Agree on competent help! no LSD, so that might be a blessing there.

 

[NIsaacs]

no LSD, so that might be a blessing there.

Thats part of the problem. The Dana open carriers are soft, too much cast iron. The torque side, next to the ring gear, will beat the bearing loose on the carrier. When that happens the bearing can move, now it spits out the thin shims. Then the ring and pinion grind them up, now you have metal all over and bearings all get eaten alive.

The LSD carrier has more steel in it and they don't come loose. At least I have not ever seen one come loose. But opens, lots of them. I always make sure the thin shims are between the thick shims for durability. Keep them (thin shims) away from the bearing or carrier.

Danas are nasty axles to rebuild, even just bearings. They are not for the faint of heart or noobies, period. Give me a Ford 9" or GM 14 bolt all day long,

 

[ewcmr2]

The D80 I have is the only original piece of the drivetrain. I haven't driven it in the snow this year but last winter the anti-spin still functioned as designed.

Same, except my Limited slip is weak.
It was fine living in the concrete jungle, but I’ve moved out to the country. Last winter I found out LSD was worn out - truck got stuck in woods and Only one side spun in the mud. Rebuild kit was backordered for months, when it arrived it was not the right one. Now I’ve found the Power-Loc clutches were installed at the factory to be less effective. Today I’m putting original parts back together with alternating frictions & steels.
Hope it works...

 

[Shelby Griggs]

Got truck back from shop today. The carrier side bearings were toast again same as 100k ago. Replaced all bearings and seals, but no gears, those all looked OK. It appears that the whine at 45 MPH from the last shop 100K ago is gone. Also replaced the driveline center carrier bearing because I had a speed vibration, it seems gone too, but likely won't last 300k, NAPA's best made in China.

Heading out on almost continuous road trips through end of April or so for work, so fingers crossed! Hope to change the diff oil again after 1000 miles or so.

 

[SAndreasen]

Got truck back from shop today. The carrier side bearings were toast again same as 100k ago. Replaced all bearings and seals, but no gears, those all looked OK. It appears that the whine at 45 MPH from the last shop 100K ago is gone. Also replaced the driveline center carrier bearing because I had a speed vibration, it seems gone too, but likely won't last 300k, NAPA's best made in China.

Heading out on almost continuous road trips through end of April or so for work, so fingers crossed! Hope to change the diff oil again after 1000 miles or so.

Napa carrier bearings I can only get a year out of at best . Bought one from quad 4x4 is better quality put on the 99 bought an orileys because it has a lifetime warranty for my 98

 

[ewcmr2]

Now I’ve found the Power-Loc clutches were installed at the factory to be less effective. Today I’m putting original parts back together with alternating frictions & steels.
Hope it works...

It worked, maybe too well.
Empty or with 800lb pallet in bed it ratchets the inside tires. Hopefully it will break in some or gooseneck trailer load will get it to slip. If not I’ll re-orient clutches/steels for less grip.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I went thru several differential gear lube changes back in earlier years, including Amsoil, and found that Amsoil and other popular synthetics all rendered my LSD inoperable - too "slippery" perhaps for the LSD to operate properly. Seems that, depending on individual driving habits, uses and locations, the LSD operation tends to wear and shed material into lube - which likely hurts other internal differential parts. My '02 is more like a Garage Queen - only 94K miles, but most were towing our 24 foot 5er...