Daughter's teacher crossed the line?

[daveshoe]

My daughter Katie is a high school senior and has always worked her butt off at school both academically and as an athlete. Among her accomplishments are perfect attendance from the first grade,a 4. 1 GPA--weighted,and a full tuition scholarship offer with additional merit based money for room and board She has a good grasp of moral issues and has plenty of common sense for an eighteen -year old. Last year ,because of taking pre-Calc from a teacher who expects more in performance than he gives in instruction,her GPA from 1st place to fourth. We are aware that some students have taken post secondary classes to avoid this teacher and maintain their GPA

After a discussion with her high school counselor about the ramifications of dropping Calc and one other class,we all decided that to take another class from this same teacher would probably do more harm than good from a financial standpoint and that she already had enough college prep stuff under her belt. Also entering in to the equation is the extra time needed to visit colleges as she is still being heavily recruited

So two days ago,her Chem teacher[noting that she had dropped calc] asked her what she was going to major in in college. She told him undecided,and on further questioning indicated to him that English is her strongest area[ACT--32]and she may look there first. He told her that is a good way to be unemployed. The next day one of her track buddies[also a 4. 0 student] was asked the same thing,and she indicated the accounting area. The teacher then said that this was a good career move as she might become a banker and could make loans to people.

He then asked my daughter's friend if he would make a loan to Katie,and s he indicated that she would. Noting that Katie was an Enghish major he said this might not be such a good idea. Her buddy still stood her ground, saying that loans are based on trust. This teacher indicated that Katies friend would probably be unemployed soon after the loan was made.

Now the first comment made to Katie could have some basis in fact as her guidance counselor pointed out that English majors would do well to minor in another area such as business. The second comment directly places her integrity into question as I know that she would pay back any financial obligations. I believe that making these kind of comments to an entire class of students is definitely uncalled for. I also know that if I take this matter up with the teacher or administrators, that my daughter would never forgive me.

Lucky for him.

 

[RustyJC]

With all respect, I think the comment regarding the viability of an English major in the business world is probably quite accurate. If your daughter is as sharp as you indicate (and I believe she is from the scores and grades you cite), I would try to guide her to another major if at all possible.



[RANT ON] I'll cite my own experience - an 18 year old kid is typically totally unqualified to make a choice of a college major that will impact the rest of his/her life. If I've never been out in the workforce (other than summer jobs), I don't have the background or knowledge to know what I want to spend the next 40 years of my life doing. This, to me, is a basic flaw in our educational system. [RANT OFF]



I have a niece who majored in International Business Administration and minored in Spanish at Texas A&M. She graduated last September with a BA. For whatever reason, she wanted to work in the hotel industry. After graduation, she got a job offer with the Gaylord group (as in Opryland, etc. ) to work as a Special Services Coordinator at a new hotel in the Las Colinas area of Dallas. This basically entailed coordinating large conferences as well as the requirements of celebrity and high profile guests - the Spanish minor helped because of the international visitors we get in Texas. She did an excellent job - so much so that when she got married 2 months ago and had to relocate back to College Station (where her husband is completing his senior year at A&M), based on a strong letter of recommendation from the Gaylord group, she was offered a job as Manager of Special Services at a major hotel in Bryan/College Station (either Hyatt or Hilton - I can't recall). Pretty good for less than a year after graduation.



My point is that today there are excellent alternatives to the science & engineering curriculum path that your daughter might want to consider in lieu of an English (or History or Fine Arts) major.



JM2CW and offered only in the spirit of constructive suggestion.



Rusty

 

[Sojourner]

What a complete jerk! No one has the right to screw with kids' heads like that. I feel for your daughter and her friend. Too bad you can't do more about the situation. That ******* should stick to teaching the subject he was hired to and not be meddling in others' affairs.

 

[mmclaughlin]

I don't think that the teacher addressed the issue properly, but I do believe that teachers should provide guidence to the students. They certainly shouldn't belittle the choice the kid has made. What's most important is that the parents provide the guidence to assit the kid in making the best choice about education, and well, just about everything else.



As for RustyJC's comment about an 18 year not being qualified pick a major in college that could impact the rest of her/his life is a little far fetched. Sure, there are a lot of kids out there that head off to school that don't know what they want to do or what to major in, but that doesn't mean they aren't qualified to do so, they just chose not to. It's pretty easy to change a major - just because they started off college as an English major doesn't mean that they can't pick something else later on. And what about all those kids that go off to join the armed forces, putting their life at risk to defend the freedoms that we all enjoy so much - are you telling me that they aren't qualified to make that choice? At what age would you suggest a kid - or I suppose it would be an adult - would be able to make such a choice?

 

[RustyJC]

As for RustyJC's comment about an 18 year not being qualified pick a major in college that could impact the rest of her/his life is a little far fetched. Sure, there are a lot of kids out there that head off to school that don't know what they want to do or what to major in, but that doesn't mean they aren't qualified to do so, they just chose not to.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Let me cite just one example. I saw too many of my classmates wanting to be mechanical engineers because they thought they would walk into Ford and go straight into (what is today) the SVT group or Ford Motorsports, or go to DaimlerChrysler and be assigned to the SRT section. They had no idea that many engineers spent their whole careers behind a drafting board (or, today, a CAD terminal) designing hood latches or door hinges. Since they weren't exposed to reality, their expectations and aspirations were unrealistic.



Now, they left college with their BSME or MSME which pretty well restricted their fields of endeavor, unless they wanted to work at a menial job totally outside their field of education. Once they went into the work environment and were exposed to the realities of their career choice, quite a few of them spent their careers unhappy with the choice they made.



No, I'm not just sitting on the fringes throwing rocks at the educational system. My mother was a high school teacher with a Master's degree prior to her death. My sister was a classroom teacher prior to getting her Master's in counseling - she is now a school counselor dealing with exactly the issues I'm discussing above.



One suggestion - I applaud those colleges and universities that offered co-op programs so that students had the opportunity to actually work in their major field as part of their college experience prior to receiving their degrees. Better to find out whether or not you like the profession for which you're training in time to change majors.



I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who is almost 57 years old and has worked for one employer for 31 years this December, 26 of those in technical and engineering management, so I'm looking back at those things I've seen and experienced in my career. For those young, idealistic individuals who are in college and looking at this from the other end of the telescope, I'm not trying to rain on your parade - just to inject a little reality that's based on a few years of experience.



My comments are worth exactly what you paid for them. If you think they might have some value, great. If not, you are certainly free to ignore them. Your choice.



Rusty

 

[jponder]

My daughter is an english major and she just sent me all these steinbach books so I have to read them now. I hope she will want to go to law school but I doubt it. Being a teacher is not so bad, they do get like 4 months off a year! Money isnt everything.



Your daughter should look at the teacher who said all that to her and say, "A DEGREE IN ENGLISH WILL ALLOW ME TO MATCH YOUR ECONOMIC POSITION OF BEING A TEACHER!!!!!"

 

[DaveN]

I think the teacher was just trying to make a point that with her credentials being an english major is probably not the best way for her to use her talents. The facts are that english majors typically DON'T make alot of money. I think that he was probably testing the other student, in that if you are a banker you have to take income and probability of employment into consideration when making a loan. Integrity doesn't have much to do with it - I know my bank didn't care about my integrity when I asked for money, they looked at my income, my job and my ability to pay back the money. I know lots of people with integrity that don't have a pot to piddle in and therefore can't pay back loans.



My personal opinion - the teacher was probably trying to help his students succeed in life based upon his definition of success - making money. Was he a little out of line? Maybe. But I tell you what - if your daughter goes ahead with her English degree, gets out and ends up working at some second rate job because she can't find decent work in her field, I will say that she at one time will wish that she had listened to her high school chem teacher. A number of my teachers were so disgruntled about pay, social status, etc with their teaching profession that they said to the whole class to stay away from teaching... .



I think that you're upset in that his comments could be construed as a personal attack on your daughters integrity, and I'm guessing that was not his intention.

 

[JoshPeters]

OK being young and dumb... here is my take:



I enjoy working on cars. I always have, always will. When I was in HS, my parents pushed me to go to a "normal" college. I having a problem sitting in a chair for extended periods of time, said no way. Cars... Lets work on them! I went to IMHO the best tech school out there UTI (Universal Technical Institute) after looking at 40 tech schools. While I was there, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Porsche, Audi, etc started their own programs. They would take only the best. They took very few students from other schools. I liked BMW's, but didn't like their attitude. Mercedes, Liked them all around. After getting into their program and getting into the field I was the happiest kid in the world. I was making more than ANY of my friends. Heck most of them were still in College! Fast forward. I've been with Mercedes for 5 years. I've started out seeing the good times in the Auto industry. We are at a low point now. Do I still enjoy working on cars? Yes. If I could go back and do something else, would I? Yes. Why, because at 17-18 I took a hobbie and made it a career. Now my hobbie is full time. At work, out of work, on here. Sometimes it gets old, sometimes it's very enjoyable. Do I do wish I could have time away from cars/trucks/vans/busses/etc? Yes!

I could go back to school again. Now it's an even harder choice. I already have a house, and all the fun bills that go with it.



My words of wisdom, Dont' end up like that teacher. I think he knew it would get back to your daughter. I don't think he had bad intent. I think he was trying to push your daughter into finding a profession that her skills are more suited for. She is a very intelligent person, there is no reason to limit herself.



Sorry for the Rambling..... just the opinion of a 26yo!



Josh

 

[jponder]

Josh> Good post!



DaveN> That JackA$$ teacher wasnt trying to help the banker AKA accounting major. He was trying to humiliate the English major. He probably has no conception of how many English and History majors are running this country. I side with the original poster, That teacher is out of line, besides the Fact that he is the Pot calling the Kettle black! I hope that girl gets her english degree and then a law degree and then a masters in ... ... and shows that Jacka$$ whats U

 

[loncray]

I think that, given the version of the story reported here, that the teacher was trying to help the student. I'd bet no harm was intended, though he possibly could've worded it better. Why would he want to humiliate a good student of his? Meantime, if he DID want to humiliate her, then going and getting all sorts of high-end English degrees isn't any sort of vengeance - getting a high-paid job with those English degrees is. I'm with Rusty on this one - if the teacher sees potential in the student, he's right to pass along his opinion as to the job-related viability of a particular degree, esp. if the student is still in the process of choosing a major. No disrespect to anyone with an English degree, but it's just not known as a moneymaker.

 

[XcumminsX]

LOL... . Your daughter should be smart enough not to listen to high school teachers and college instructors... There all so political and im not gonna say my other comment because i will get banned form this website so i will sit here with my teeth on my lip. I got a 30 on my ACT and i was pretty high up here your daughter must VERY smart. I couldnt hold a 3. 3 GPA because i was more of a social kid in high school and didnt care much for classes ...

 

[Guest]

Thats too bad... Is it a public or private school?

 

[Elite1]

I wonder if the teacher realizes that many Attorneys were English majors... I have a sister with a business degree with an English minor... she tried the corp. world and it wasn't for her, she is now a High School English teacher... I wonder if the teacher in question would be eligible for a loan?

 

[JohnE]

Look at the average High School teacher.

Graduated from High School, graduated from College, went back to High School. Oh yeah, "out there in the real world" is the part time job they held in the summer or during the school year.



Looking back I can pick put the teachers with a bitter attitude. Back when I was there, it wasn't this clear. Sad reality is both good & bad teachers have an influence on the students.



I've been "out here" for 22 years, but really wish I could go back to school. ...

I have been a part time instructor at my employers for the last 6 years and really enjoy it. I just need to find that teaching job that pays an Engineer's salary.



back to original post



daveshoe;

Report your problems to Parent/Teacher Organization, School Administration and School Board on BOTH teachers. Chances are it won't do any good as they probably have tenure which translates to immunity in our terms. (Tenure used to mean 10 years of credited service. )

At least with the PTO, other parents will hear the story and may bring up similar circumstances to administration.

 

[TxDieselKid]

I goto school with 12,000 students and I don't know a single English major. I am getting my minor in History, and about the only thing I could do with that is teach.



I think the teacher went over the line because it's a Chem teacher, not a life leadership/homeroom/DECA type class. I can understand about you wanting to take care of the sitution because I would want to do the same.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I have a niece that went to Northwestern in Chicago - a journalism major with an English minor. She just bought a $1. 25 million dollar home in San Francisco about 6 months ago.



We have English majors working here in communications making close to $100k. They aren't teaching school.

 

[RustyJC]

Jumbo Jet,



With all respect, I don't believe the situation you describe is anything near the norm for English majors. No insult intended to any English majors - just fact.



Rusty

 

[daveshoe]

Keep it coming

You guys are improving my perspective on this. I guess my main concern on this topic is that in life you need to be able to take a little punch in silence, but somehow this guy needs to know that he is not gonna get a license to continue this type of crap. We are trying to determine if he is genuinely trying to improve her life or use her as a public punching bag to make him feel better about his life. After all, even with his background,one cannot fail to notice that he is not running the R@D department at DuPont Chemical. One must also consider that a teacher can have sneaky little ways of getting even if you shine the light on their behavior.

If I could reiterate one point,it is that we already discussed this with a guidance counselor and Katie agrees that another degree as a double major or minor needs to couple to an English degree.

 

[loncray]

I don't see any problems with taking an English minor - if I'd had the money when I was in school I might've thought about an English minor to go with my Business Admin major. Taking a double major or English as the minor discipline is a fine idea!

 

[TGreschuk]

IMHO the value in this transaction would be to discuss with your daughter a few life lessons such as how people may not be what they first appear and more importantly, not to put any other person on a pedestal, teacher, doctor, lawyer etc. They are all human, bleed red and can be WRONG! Tell her to use her own obvious talents, form her own independent opinions and stand by her convictions irregardless of what some jackass high school teacher thinks.



Trent