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DC Corporate, please read this

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

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Dear Sirs,

The majority of our truck problems are not your fault. My personal experiences have led me to believe that most difficulties are the result of poor quality control at the component manufacturing level. They have standing orders with you every month, and do their darndest to cut costs to boost profit margins, leaving YOU the burdon and expense of making their blunders right with YOUR customers. This very same problem plagued Jaguar for years, leaving the company in virtual ruins.
For and 'apples-to-apples' comparisson, lets look at the Mercedes ML which is assembled in Alabama. I own one, so I feel I know both sides of the fence. The vehicle costs approximately the same as a new Ram, and is built from mostly out-sourced components. The motor and gearbox are assembled in Germany and shipped. The transfer case is heavy duty, old GM with chain-drive. The brakes, suspension, axles and all underpinnings are ATE. The paint, fit and finish are first class! Now for the bad stuff: the seats, door panels, guages, dash, carpet, etc. are all made by GM suppliers. They are cheasy, problematic and have no place in a $40,000 vehicle... they belong in a $20,000 Chevrolet.
If I may be so bold as to suggest a solution, please be far more selective in your out-sourced suppliers and greatly increase your quality controls. My new 1995 Ram had bad wheels on it; the lug and centering holes were not milled in the center! I was told this was a common problem! Many new Rams have bad brake calipers right off the assembly line. If changing these items and others increase your per-unit costs, pass the costs along to us, just give us a new, trouble-free truck and keep us as Chrysler customers.

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97 2500 CC 4x4 3. 54 5spd, Green, #12 plate slid all the way forward, 4inch open exhaust, 235/85 Michelins, RS 9000's, PrimeLoc, Red Tops, TDR cloisonae grill badge!
 
And while you're at it, no matter what your bean-counters tell you, there IS a profitable market for crew cabs, and we WILL be willing to pay extra for an Allison transmission!

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http://coffeewithJesus. homestead.com/web1.html 89 1-ton, Amsoil System 3000 5-30,K&N air filter, cleaned-up exhaust, Dynomax straight-thru, rebuilt pump, thermostatically controlled twin 14" Permacool electric fans, intercooler), modified 518 OD transmission, Gear vendors OD controler, R-134 refrigernt, louvered front fenders, 93 aftermarket smoothie grille, new Dupont Chromacolor black, black-and-red rubber rubstrip, black headlights, powdercoated bumpers; 78 35'Avion, 93 Lance 900 slide in with generator and power jacks. To see my truck, Click on: <A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169022&a=10097213

Jesus" TARGET=_blank>http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169022&a=10097213

Jesus</A> saves!
 
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I am a Sr. quality engineer for a aerospace gear manufacture, and if our quality Control was like American Automotive Ind. Poeple would die!
THese auto companies talk about there quality, but there products sure dont show it. In my industry we have strict standers we have to follow such as AS9100,DS9000. In one of those elements is a requirement called corrective and preventive actions. These procedures ensure that when you have problems such as "bad brakes" preventive measures are promply emplemented. Just my 2 cents.

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96,2WD 3/4t ext. cab-DC,just added DTT torque convertor with valve body,tst #6 plate ready to add #5,full pillar guages,5th wheel setup
wanting to add 2-3 lift, and rig style volosity stacks.
 
BCFAST
I couldn't have said it better. I worked almost 32 years in quality control at a steel mill. Quality begins with the manufacturer!!!Let's hope DC listens to some of us and gives everyone a better product. I am also one of those guys that will pay more for a quality product if I know I am getting the best.
Dave

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2001 2500 HO 6spd QC LB 4x4 SLTPLUS All options except Snow Plow and Clearance Lights - Rhino Liner and Straight Exhaust
 
I do seriously doubt we ever see an Allison in a ram. Mainly becuase Alison is a division of GM. What are the chances GM is going to want to sell DC tens of thousands of alisons... and on the same not why would DC want to put GM stuff in our trucks??? I Imagine GM would also consider the only reason someone might by the DuraJap equiped truck is Becuase of the auto transmission. But if it were up to me Putting an auto behind a diesel would be punishable by law #ad
lol Just my . 02

Clark
 
BadFish, the manual gearboxes both 5 and 6 speeds as installed since 1994, are made in New York state by New Venture, a GM company. Please do NOT believe that the Allison is wonderful... . they are great in buses and motorhomes, but are built to haul 50,000lbs vehicles; my guess is that the ones going into the Durapuke and future Rams will be a disapointment in need of VERY expensive modification to haul the trailers we currently pull. If you tow, buy a manual, period!

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97 2500 CC 4x4 3. 54 5spd, Green, #12 plate slid all the way forward, 4inch open exhaust, 235/85 Michelins, RS 9000's, PrimeLoc, Red Tops, TDR cloisonae grill badge!
 
I am willing to pay more for higher quality products and better assembly of our trucks. I know costs is a major consideration when bringing a product to market, but I'm will to pay a little extra for something which will give trouble free operation long past the warranty period (which is why I purchased the vehicle with the Cummins)

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'95 2500 SLT 5 speed 4x4
 
DCFAST; so I guess that's an endorsement of GM manual transmissions, right? Sorry, but I have no choice; I have to have an automatic. The Mopar 618 and the Ford AOD are proven troublemakers. The Allison is built twice as heavy as the 618 and the AOD. So with or without the heavier bus case, it's my best bet. I ordered a Duramax for my brother, so we'll see how well it performs and holds up!

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http://coffeewithJesus. homestead.com/web1.html 89 1-ton, Amsoil System 3000 5-30,K&N air filter, cleaned-up exhaust, Dynomax straight-thru, rebuilt pump, thermostatically controlled twin 14" Permacool electric fans, intercooler), modified 518 OD transmission, Gear vendors OD controler, R-134 refrigernt, louvered front fenders, 93 aftermarket smoothie grille, new Dupont Chromacolor black, black-and-red rubber rubstrip, black headlights, powdercoated bumpers; 78 35'Avion, 93 Lance 900 slide in with generator and power jacks. To see my truck, Click on: <A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169022&a=10097213

Jesus" TARGET=_blank>http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169022&a=10097213

Jesus</A> saves!
 
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Originally posted by azgearpro:
I am a Sr. quality engineer for a aerospace gear manufacture, and if our quality Control was like American Automotive Ind. Poeple would die!
THese auto companies talk about there quality, but there products sure dont show it. In my industry we have strict standers we have to follow such as AS9100,DS9000. In one of those elements is a requirement called corrective and preventive actions. These procedures ensure that when you have problems such as "bad brakes" preventive measures are promply emplemented. Just my 2 cents.


I once had a 1 day internship at an leading US Aerospace manufacture. The guy that I was watching work said " Any part that goes into space or is used on aircraft where people's lives are at risk, they don't play games with. "

In other words he meant the part would not fail in use and has to pass a battery of strict inspections & tests. #ad
 
Hey y'all:

I'm teetering on the fence whether I'll buy another DC product. Aside from the occasional stumble in my 2000 that DC can't seem to completely remedy, I'm fairly satisfied so far with this truck. I bought a new '96 gasser Ram that I didn't tow or drive hard. The d---'d thing had two separate oil leaks one of the heads, a blown head gasket, all in warranty, and rebuilt automatic two month's ago out of warranty. I also had a '90 dodge that had the ignition switch burn out just after it went out of warranty. I had to pull dash, replace main wiring harness and put back together. About 5 weeks work in my spare time.

I want dodge to make 'em like my first car, '67 Dodge Polara. Paid $600, drove it 110,000 miles (no oil change, just added) and sold it 6 year later for $600.

Sorry about rambling on, but it's getting about as hard to be a Ram fan as it is to be a Dallas Cowboys fan. #ad


DC, you can kick "A" if you get your quality problems squared away.

And, like JSimpson, I want to buy a Ram crewcab if they don't screw up their quality any more.

My $. 02

Wiredawg



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2000 4X4 SLT QC 8' bed; 6 spd, 3. 54 ; BD exhaust brake and 4" exhaust syst; TST PM2; Airlift Super Duty rear air bags; RS 9000 shocks; pyro/boost gauges in 2 gauge a-pillar mount; back preasure gauge mounted under dash; KN air filter; Brown's Welding brush/grill guard, rear bumper & headache rack; nerf bars and aluminum roll top rear cover, Warn front receiver and Hadley air horns, 20K Reese hitch.
 
I purposely saught out a Mexican-built truck as it has been painfully obvious over the years that they are FAR superior in build quality... . and I cant complain about the build quality: no squeeks, rattles or leaks! But the quality of the components used (calipers, shocks, hitch, wheels/tires,etc) leave much to be desired.
 
New Venture Gear is a Chrysler/Gm owned company , formerly called New Process Gear, then a Chrysler company.
What is a 618 transmission? The 518 is a later 727 with overdrive.
General motors is not going to restrict product sales for the sake of exclusivity. How could they justify developement of a whole new transmission with no firm quantity forecast? Profit is spelled "sales". The Allison will be available in the 2003 ram diesel and V10.
Now, back to the soaps!
Ron
 
Do it right the first time? No way! Not DC or the Dealer. Check this thread.
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum4/HTML/004166.html

I'm not going to post the dealer name, but I'm going to pass this along to their owner.

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Y2K Red Stealth Sport 2500 4X4 QC SLT+, 5-spd, 3. 54 anti-spin, 265-75-16 LTX’s (There ain’t no such thing as options, cause ya gotta have it all, including: DC’s dead cow/vinyl interior and don’t stop anti-lock brakes. ) Stock, but not for long. Oops, too late. What silencer ring? (More fun than my 98 SST)
 
I stopped on Sunday and looked at new high output 6 speeds. I also looked at the prices on the sticker. I think we are ALREADY talking about paying enough for good quality. I mean come on, #ad
over $30,000 for a pickup truck?! Even with the Cummins. I look at how much pickups have gone up in price and my wages sure haven't jumped up that much. Would I pay more for top quality? Oh hell no, I think we're already being asked to pay enough that we should be getting top quality NOW! New electron powered truck? NO THANKS. I'll stick to my old 12valve '95.

Daniel

[This message has been edited by danandme (edited 01-25-2001). ]
 
After WWII Mr. Simpson taught the Japanese about quality. They progressed from making real crap to some of the best products in the world. US Automakers among other US companies rejected Mr. Simpson's ideas. They thought they were too costly.

Today Mr. Simpson's ideas are getting much attention in the US, but not to the extent required to compete on the world market.

As to DC - the quality simply isn't adequate to compete in the US or global market. It is better or equal to some bench marks, but by any measure it is simply inadequate. I hope DC hears this LOUD AND CLEAR.

I love the Cummins. I like the truck, I think it is a strong number 3 behind you know who. Service and quality need help.

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John S. '99 QC 1T 4. 11 A/T Leather Driftwood, 50 Gal aux tank/tool box, gearvendors, BD brake/autolok, BD ISB comp, guages, BD Pressure Lock and Pract. Sol. Boost Elbow.

Just a Little BOMBed and liking it a lot.
 
It seems that all the truck makers are looking for something that works even if they have to use some other design besides their own. They keep searching and trying
their mistakes out on--Us--the customer. Example is the GM brakes on the 2nd gen trks. No wonder 30 grand plus is the cost of these trucks, somebody has to pay for all the mistakes, and thats U and Me.
 
Chrysler quality?
1993 Grand Caravan, 145,000 miles. On it's third transmission.
Reliant and Shadow, both with the 2. 2 liter, both needing headgaskets at 60,000 miles.
1993 D350. Owned 3 years, no problems yet.
My next car and/or minivan, Toyota or Honda!
If DC can't give us quality, then maybe Toyota can give us the Cummins in a full size pick up!
 
If DC switches to an in-house diesel, don't be surprised if Toyota DOES build a 1 ton with a Cummins! There would be QUITE a following!!!

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http://coffeewithJesus. homestead.com/web1.html 89 1-ton, Amsoil System 3000 5-30,K&N air filter, cleaned-up exhaust, Dynomax straight-thru, rebuilt pump, thermostatically controlled twin 14" Permacool electric fans, intercooler), modified 518 OD transmission, Gear vendors OD controler, R-134 refrigernt, louvered front fenders, 93 aftermarket smoothie grille, new Dupont Chromacolor black, black-and-red rubber rubstrip, black headlights, powdercoated bumpers; 78 35'Avion, 93 Lance 900 slide in with generator and power jacks. To see my truck, Click on: <A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169022&a=10097213

Jesus" TARGET=_blank>http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1169022&a=10097213

Jesus</A> saves!
 
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Now lets not make this entirely one sided folks. I own a new ETH, the finish is "adequate" at best, the center console lid hinge tabs are crap, I have clear coat overspray on my fender from when the engine was clear coated (BOMB'n Stripes?), and other QC issues that should not present on such a MATURE model from an experienced line.

As far as problems stemming from suppliers entirely, lets look at recent trends... the Big Guns have ebbed growing cost to a degree by forcing price cuts on their suppliers more or less. The suppliers build to spec (allegedly) and the MFG puts it together, problems can stem from poor quality suppliers, poor quality materials, inadequate designs/specifications and a host of other areas.

The same can be said of CO$Ts coming from EVERYWHERE. I read an article about GM that said "the single most expensive component of a (typical) GM automobile is the FIRST DOLLAR HEALTH CARE COVERAGE FOR THEIR WORKERS. "

Now that is surely an accomplishment for the UAW to get such a desirable benefit, BUT IN THE END, WE THE CONSUMERS ARE PAYING FOR IT. Do you enjoy first dollar health care coverage? I work for a Fortune 500 company, have a BBA, I'm nearly done with my MBA and I don't have such nice benefits... nor do ANY OF MY PIERS! THE MARKET WILL NOT SUPPORT IT.

Yet some how the Big Three trudge through such difficulties and "PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU AND I".

If such adversarial relationships between labor, management, suppliers and even consumers lead to such in fighting that each party pursues their own best interest to the detriment of all others... then in the end, THE MARKET WILL GET SICK OF THE RESULTING INEFFICINCIES, EXCESSIVE COSTS and INADDEQUATE QUALITY AND JUST REFUSE TO PAY FOR IT ANY LONGER. The "adversarial players" will be w/o a customer base... while those that seek to work together to work for the best interests of all involved, will win.

You can not make everyone happy, but you can reach agreements that are not going to ruin your counterparties. Do we work together to build vehicles for the general public as a partnership, or is it every party for him/herself until we bankrupt one another?

I'm not saying "can't we all get along?" but more, "can we really expect society to continue paying the price for such one sided an inefficient relationships?"

MAD Max

[This message has been edited by Mad Max (edited 01-26-2001). ]
 
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