DD3s

[jlatham]

Fixing to install DD3s. Hoping to be close to 400 Hp With the combination of the PM3 and injectors. Am I thinking too high of numbers are is that about right?

Can’t wait to get this stuff installed.



Also have a Mu0090 con going to install it to.

Are there any tricks that I need to know that might help me?

. What is the deferens in the PM3 And the PM3 comp version?









Justin

 

[Briar Hopper]

The DD3's are great, I have them. Also have the Powermax 3, competition version. Yes, it's about 400 HP total.

The difference in the PM3's is the regular one meets EPA specs, but with your injectors you can fuggedaboutit. The Competition version has more extreme fueling, with a 65% duty cycle, not good for the long life of your VP44 injection pump. Yet, mine hasn't gone belly up after 20,000 miles of using the PM3 comp.

You're gonna need a bigger turbo to utilize all that extra fuel.

 

[jlatham]

Hey thanks for the info I’m a little unclear about the duty cycle. Is it the same principle as a welder with a duty cycle? On the dyno charts my Hp starts dropping dramatically at 90 mph I was wondering if the comp version would help out on top end? Did you have a PM3 and then upgrade to a comp version? I have had mine for over a year now and thought it was time to do some more bombing. Just trying to get some info to see if its worth $$ to have my old one reprogrammed to the comp version. I really can’t wait to see what these injectors are going to do. I have a couple of friends that are in the low 400 Hp range I hate always being the low man at the dyno. Maybe these injectors will help me out with that until they do some more mods.







Thanks Justin

 

[MikeR]

My truck has the std ETC engine with a manual trans, and with DD2's and a regular (non-comp) Power Max3 it laid 406hp with the stock turbo and stock 3" exhaust straight-piped.



-Mike

 

[WAYNE]

I made 401 HP & 851 ft/lbs with 275's and an edge comp .

 

[Briar Hopper]

Justin, it gets a little complicated going from a regular PM3 to a PM3 Competition. The standard Comp seems to be unusable in the upper 3 levels, according to a lot of TDR members that have them. The truck shudders violently when letting off the accelerator pedal, when you are in an upper level, and going for the money at the end of the track.

Mine doesn't do it anymore, though I've had my Comp re-programmed, remember. The results were not what I thought they would be, I'm surprised at the amount of power I have. I haven't tried level 9 . EGT's get up to "no-no land" at level 6, and higher after that. And that's with an Hx40 turbo. I've raced it with the box set on level 8. No harm done. That time.

You only get about 10 more HP with the Comp, I think.

The duty cycle principle is comparable to a welder's duty cycle, loosely. The VP44 pump utilizes an electric solenoid . How long that solenoid stays energized determines how hot it gets. You don't want to get it too hot.

Steve St. Laurent knows his stuff about TST boxes. Maybe he'll chime in here. Or you can PM him and ask.

 

[jlatham]

Thanks for the info. Sorry its taken me so long to reply, been a little busy. Hope to see some of you in Pahrump at the dyno event Saturday.



Thanks Justin

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Justin, it's hard to explain the fueling possibilities with a box over the net. The basic limitation is that there is a solenoid on the VP44 that is controlled by the ECM (and by fueling boxes) - the longer that it's open the more fuel is put into the cylinder. However, the longer it's open the more heat is generated in that solenoid and the greater the chance for a melt down, also the further the slide will move in the rotor in the VP44 - Blue Chip diesel has a great explanation of VP44 failures with boxes at http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/Bosch-VP44.htm . The true limitation of our VP44's is the solenoid duty cycle - you can increase the fueling of your box ridiculously down low and hit the wall on the solenoid duty cycle early and maintain that fueling level, or you could have it more level. Any of the boxes out there could set the max duty cycle at any level they wish - it's just what they feel comfortable with regarding heat in the solenoid! The max that I've been told they recommend is a 55% duty cycle before it can possibly get too hot depending on how long it's run. I have my box set at 70% - but I am aware of that and use my right foot to back off, but I am taking a risk. Tom and I are both running custom boxes that aren't normally sold over the shelf from TST. Both of our boxes do 100% overfueling at low boost #'s (to help spool the turbo fast - but also means TONS of smoke at low boost #'s) and then back off to 50% overfueling - comp boxes continue at 100% overfueling, however once the max duty cycle is hit then fueling is backed off. I had the fueling levels set on Tom's box so that his max duty cycle was at 60% (because he was concerned about his injection pump life) which was about 2500 rpm. In my case I have 4. 10 gears and hit 2800-2900 at the end of the 1/4 mile so I have my max duty cycle set at 70% so I would have full fueling until I was through the lights - but I'm taking a risk. Send me a PM or an email at -- email address removed -- and I'll send you my phone # and I'll be glad to discuss with you your options! Just remember that there are risks when you push the limits - myself, I decided that I didn't care about my VP44 warranty and was willing to take some risks on it - buyer beware and remember that YOU are your own warranty station!

 

[JTroiano]

So say my VP44 goes bad and I have to buy a new pump due to Dodge not warranting it. Is the inline pump a better pump? And could it be installed into the 01 engine? I thought I read some were that they are capable of flowing a lot more fuel?

Jon

 

[1tuffram]

Originally posted by JTroiano

So say my VP44 goes bad and I have to buy a new pump due to Dodge not warranting it. Is the inline pump a better pump? And could it be installed into the 01 engine? I thought I read some were that they are capable of flowing a lot more fuel?

Jon

The P pump is more reliable and capable of flowing more fuel than the VP. The P pump can be adapted to the ISB. I believe cost is the main limiting factor, but makes for a very sweet set-up (best of both worlds).

 

[TxDieselKid]

cost ..... I don't think that is enough....

Originally posted by 1tuffram





The P pump can be adapted to the ISB. I believe cost is the main limiting factor, but makes for a very sweet set-up (best of both worlds).

I want a P-pump more then anybody I know, but the cost is just ungodly. I think I read where Lawarence from DD will do it for like $6,000. However, this is the only P-pump 24v that I know of.



Andrew-wanting santa to bring a p7100 set up for my 24v

 

[JTroiano]

What about getting one from a damaged truck from a wrecking yard. They sell the whole engine for about 4000 dollars so if the engine was damaged in the wreck maybe you could pick up all the pieces for about 2 grand? Is the gearing in the front of the engine the same? What does it take to swap it over? I have friends in good places to get me used parts and I can start tyring now. It may take awhile but if you keep your eyes open for the deal you never know.

Jon

 

[JR2]

I know someone besides DD installs the P pump on the 24v trucks, I just don't remember who. I recall reading a post about a company that was building 24v P-pumped engines for Hummers.



I think the cost is high due to the massive amout of work it takes to get the gears and such installed in the 24. Something about machining the front of the engine and such... If it was a simple switch many of us would have alread done it.



I have a dream of getting an engine shipped to DD in a crate and letting them go hog wild on it. P-pump, cam, injectors, porting, polishing, and what ever else will make it scream. Then installing it in a 98. 5 2x2 long bed. Oh to dream... .

 

[TxDieselKid]

There's always room for magic...in the world of make-belive

Like JR2 said, making the P pump fit is just not that simple. The cam has to have a seperate lobe to drive the mech. fuel pump, and a new dash, and before hand you have to win the lottery, and it starts adding up VERY FAST!!!



I have a dream too, 2 of them really. Ones a 2001 3/4ton 12v 4x4 short wheel base for truck pulls, and the other is a 2001 1ton 24v p-pump 2x4 for drag racing. But should I win the lotto, then may my dreams become reality.



AJB

 

[johnrv4]

24V with the P-7100

Scheid diesel in Indiana was the company putting the Bosch P-7100's on the Hummer engines. I talked to one of the technicians at the Scheid Diesel Extravaganza this year. They had a 24V engine there with the P-7100 pump installed. They had said the hardest part of the conversion was making up the fuel injector lines. He also said that you can use a 12V front housing and drive gear. That seems to be a bolt-on swap. Check some past threads, there were some good replies to this same question. Joe Donnelly gave a brief explanation in one on what was done to the DD truck.

 

[JTroiano]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess if I find one cheap I'll pick it up.

Jon