2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Death wobble, whats the cure?

[Alphacowboy]

I am about to toss a stick of dynomite in the cab and walk away... .



So, for those of you that are not up to speed on my issues, I had some major issues with death wobble and found almost all my suspension parts upfront worn out... Guys, any ideas? Here is a list of what has been done and the specs of it.



1. ) Replaced entire axle assembly with the 27k mile 03 AAM axle I purchased last year. with what appeared to be good hubs and one set of tight ball joints and on set that has ~1/8" play up and down. Acording to Dodge, that is within spec... Also has good pads, rotors, and calipers.



2. ) Replaced tracbar and TuffCountry tracbar drop bracket with ThurenFabs drop bracket and trackbar. Properly installed and welded to the frame. Axle is within ~1/8" of being centered.



3. ) Removed all the TC lift components from the front and replaced lower arms with Fabtechs long arm setup. Relaced upper arms with Fabtech arms as well (package).



4. ) Removed all 4 TC shocks (2 per side) as they were all leaking and no longer useable. Replace them with a single center shock (TC stuff I still had, new in the box 8000 Nitrogas Shocks. ) Didnt put the second shock on due to the lower bracket is different from the 2nd gen axle to the 3rd. Also replaced the lower bolts with what Dodge should have had from the factory, and full bodied bolt with only 1" of thread on it. Those of you that have replaced shocks with 140k miles on them, you know how those threads look where the bushing rides



5. ) Aligned the truck the best I could. Lower cam bolts are adjusted full forward ( think I should back them off a little?) Toe is adjusted to with in ~1/8" (toe'd in slightly)



6. ) Replaced the stock coil springs with Skyjacker 4. 5" lift springs and ditched the 4. 5" spacer.



7. ) Even rotated the tired from the rear to the front to eliminate a bad tire...



8. ) Thurenfab HD steering is rock solid, no play in the hiems, and all snugged up tight.



I am lost guys, I dont know what else to do, I have replaced every piece of hardware I can think of under the front end. Seriously, the only part left in the front is the Thuren steering, and we all know that aint it. I havent put the sway bar back on yet as I have to remove the plow brackets ( = not fun!). Bushings in all the Fabtech stuff were like brand new and all greased.



DEATH WOBBLE SUCKS!

 

[NIsaacs]

What are you running for tire and wheel combo? The Dodge front axle likes stock wheel spacing.





"NICK"

 

[Alphacowboy]

What are you running for tire and wheel combo? The Dodge front axle likes stock wheel spacing.





"NICK"

H2s with 315/75R17 BFGs. Actually, these tires and wheels have given me the least amount of trouble. I dont know what the deal is now. Even rotating them made no difference.

 

[dmhollister]

Since you have replaced the control arms with aftermarket, You need to consider a change in the caster angle of the front drive shaft. With my TJ and long arm kit had to adjust the angle to right around three degrees. Which is way off from the 5-6 degrees recommended with stock components. A local alignment shop turned me on to that to cure the Death Wobble on my TJ.

Another thing that they did was to have the tires balanced again using tape weights instead of pound on. They were able to move the wieghts closer to the problem area rather than trying to ofset balance them. Just a couple more places to look and things to consider. Good luck.

 

[Alphacowboy]

this is with negative caster right? where the knuckles are slightly tilted back, or possitive caster?

 

[THUREN]

Forgot to mentioned when I talked to you Matt.....





You could probably stop the DW by swapping out tires also, instead of the stabilizer. I don't know why, but these trucks HATE BFG allterrains and try to spit them out. .

 

[HighRanger]

I have death wobble in my TJ as well. Damn 36" Bias ply Iroks. In my jeep it has always come down to the tires. HTH.

 

[EBung]

I have found that positive caster improves high speed stability. At least 3. 5+

 

[JPittinger]

A steering box that's tight fixed mine, and I've been through nearly as much trouble as you. Got mine from PSS and it's great. Also, regardless of size, I'll never run anything less than an E-rated tire. The side walls are stiffer and tire flex is one variable, so keep the load rating comments to yerself.
Goodluck and it can be fixed, John

 

[Alphacowboy]

Forgot to mention, the steering box is less than a year old and also have a DSS brace on it.



when talking caster, positive and negative, which is which way?

 

[EBung]

In effect you rotate the axle by lengthening the lower control arms. On our trucks the eccentric bolt to the rear of the lower slot.

 

[Alphacowboy]

In effect you rotate the axle by lengthening the lower control arms. On our trucks the eccentric bolt to the rear of the lower slot.

thats what I thought. I have bolt all the way to the back, so its pushing the lower end of the axle forward.



I talked to Don Thuren and it looks like I might need to get a stablizer after all Heck they came from the factory with one, so I guess it should be on there. And, I suppose I should get the Swaybar back on as well. I just dont want to have to take my plow mount off to get it back on there. Oh well. Ordering a SS from Don today!



-Matt

 

[480RUGER]

Forgot to mentioned when I talked to you Matt.....





You could probably stop the DW by swapping out tires also, instead of the stabilizer. I don't know why, but these trucks HATE BFG allterrains and try to spit them out. .

I agree the BFG A/Ts are not made like they used to be. Scrap them or find someone that will let you swap wheels for awhile.

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

Have you taken it to a relaible alignment shop? It sounds like you did an alignment yourself. An alignment machine can give you a lot of information you can't get with a tape measure. I'd be most interested in knowing what the cross caster is, and also the scrub radius.

To answer your question: You want positive caster... . the top ball joint closer to the rear than the front one.

Joe

 

[Alphacowboy]

Have you taken it to a relaible alignment shop? It sounds like you did an alignment yourself. An alignment machine can give you a lot of information you can't get with a tape measure. I'd be most interested in knowing what the cross caster is, and also the scrub radius.

To answer your question: You want positive caster... . the top ball joint closer to the rear than the front one.

Joe

No i havent, but most shops around here see a lifted truck and say they cant do it. Plus with my aftermarket stuff, they wont touch it. Guess they dont understand how to adjust heims on my steering or understand lifted components.



BTW, I ran it down the road with the front tire on the yellow and looked back and forth a couple times with my head out the window, she tracks perfectly straight! I mean the tires were dead even on the line! It does not pull either way and drives straight.



I am going with Dons diagnosis, and ordered a Steering stablizer from him this morning. I pray this is the fix for my issues. the truck came with one from the factory... so I guess it would make sense that one should still be there.

 

[sam616g]

What tire pressures are you running?

 

[JWashburn]

Death Wobble comes from a front axle which is allowed excessive side-to-side play. If you put the front axle on jack stands and turn the steering wheel right and left you should be able to measure or see some body movement. If so then do the 3rd gen track bar conversion from SSI. If not then its not death wobble as we understand it.

Death wobble could result from the wrong sized bolt in the passenger end of the track bar, possibly the bolt is worn, or the bolt hole has enlarged.

IMO, the dampener may just mask the problem.

Another source that would allow side-to-side play could be worn unit bearings. Although, it sounds like you replaced the whole front axle.

 

[Alphacowboy]

Death Wobble comes from a front axle which is allowed excessive side-to-side play. If you put the front axle on jack stands and turn the steering wheel right and left you should be able to measure or see some body movement. If so then do the 3rd gen track bar conversion from SSI. If not then its not death wobble as we understand it.

No side to side movement, I have the king of all trac-bars on my truck. The Thuren Fab bar makes that SSI unit look like kids play. It would take an accident to move the truck side to side over the axle. I'll take pictures of the setup tomorrow. Trust me, its in no way the trac-bar.

Death wobble could result from the wrong sized bolt in the passenger end of the track bar, possibly the bolt is worn, or the bolt hole has enlarged.

Checked it out, its tight and again, it doesnt move

IMO, the dampener may just mask the problem.

True, but obviously Dodge installed one from the factory for a reason.

Another source that would allow side-to-side play could be worn unit bearings. Although, it sounds like you replaced the whole front axle.

I would hope this isnt the case, as I completely replaced the 140k mile D60 with a 27k mile 03 AAM 9. 5 axle. But anything is possible.



I am leaning toward tires unfortunately. The tires are all evenly worn, and dont seem to be out of round, but I am lost as to what else could really cause it.



They are at 40psi IIRC. To be honest, I havent driven the truck for 2 months, and I didnt check them, so there is a chance they might be low. I'll have to check that as well.

 

[EBung]

If you have the BFGs I would go with 50psi as they aren't enough tire to go low pressure on.

 

[Alphacowboy]

Tires are at 48psi, so that I dont think is it.



So while I wait for Dons SS, I installed the old steering stablizer I had, actually it was pretty new, only had a few thousand miles on it. Made a temp bracket with u-bolts on the Thuren Steering. Well, took it for a drive, and it did help, but didnt make it go away. Definately made it more controlable though. I then moved the Cambolts to just shy of center and it has just about completely made it go away. At least now I feel like I can drive it and if I do encounter DW, I can make it stop with a slight tap of the brakes and slowing down a little. It is still slightly toed in. Might just take it to an alignment shop for the heck of it just to make sure its dead on and see if it completely goes away. Plus, I am sick of dicking with it in the driveway.