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Decisions...VA or PE

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I want to buy one or the other. I took in a lot of knowledge from the "VA vs PE vs... debate". The VA is eaaaaasy to instal and remove. It also cost a few extra bucks as well. Should I just get a PE and have it programed on the lower power side since I have an auto with no mods to it, or should I start looking into transmission mods now with what I already have on my little 6?

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2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, boost module, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple black 340 car w/air! Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
 
Hey Chad,
I hooked a VA onto my truck and drove it. It made a difference, but minimal. I really think you'd be happier having your transmission upgraded anyway, and then going with the PE. I'm trying to decide whether I'll go with the PE, or DD stage III injectors first. Either way, I'm going to go the valve body/torque converter route.

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Randy Jones, San Antonio, TX, 98 1/2 QC, 4X4, American Racing BAJA's, 285/75/16, Amsoil throughout
 
Chad, I have access to any of the boxes on the market. Would you prefer 75 horsepower or 20? The price is the same. How much horsepower are you looking for?
 
Think we can get a 3/4 ton 4x4 to pull both the front wheels on launch?

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2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, boost module, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple black 340 car w/air! Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
 
At the risk of a public flogging, I call BS on the VA's 20hp. Coupled with a boost module, the va rocked in my ETH. I have testd the VA in several trucks, and only about 15% of the trucks do you see minimal gains. I like the edge, but it gives to many EGT for my truck.

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2001 6-speed 4*4 Quad dually. Diesel Dynamic Injectors, 14cm housing 4in exhaust. Jacobs brake.
 
Chad,
Power Edge all the way! #ad
More power, programable, more versatility, 3 power levels with in cab control with the ability to choose the level of power needed, Less cost!

As far a transmission mods, if you use #1 until you can afford the mods you shouldn't have a problem. You could probably use #2 occasionally and #3 on a very rare occasion.

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99 Quad Cab, White, SLT, 4x4, 5-sp, 3:54's, LSD, Loaded except cab lights and leather, Raven cap (cab high), Rhino liner, Stainless Nerf Bars, Stainless Rocker Panels, Tow package, Pro-flap mud flaps (Stainless Cummins "C" coming to add to rear flaps), Power Edge (my first BOMB), Valentine One, Amsoil throughout, CB Radio.

Things to come;

Hadley Bully Air Horns, 285/75R16 Cooper A/T's, SPA Pyro and Boost gauge, 4" exhaust system, DDIII's, Psychotty Air Filter.

NRA Life Member! (Need to protect our rights and FREEDOM!!)
 
Chad, with the VA box you will get good power increase and the transmission mods can be put off for quite a while. The transmission mods will help get more of the VA's power to the ground but its not urgent that you get it done. If your going to go full BOMB then another box may be a better choice. Regards Pete

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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!PROPER VALVEMENT
 
CHAD, I THANK THE VA IS A LITTLE MORE THAN MINIMAL TO . IF YOU WONT TO RUN DOWN THE HIWAY WITH 300 HORSE POWER LOOKING TO OUT RUN THE PHORDS THEN GO WITH WITH POWER EDGE AND ALL THE EXTRA. BUT IF YOU WONT A LITTLE POWER AND DON'T WONT TO WORK ON THE transmission THEN I WOULD GO WITH THE VA. I HAVE A VA AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM PULLING WITH THE PHORDS. JUST MY TWO CENT WORTH.

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one old dog
 
DD stage 3 will run circles around the Power Edge. Power Edge alone will never out run a chipped PSD. Of course we ordered two PE's both defective, Brother-in-law wants to try another one, I don't.

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2001 5 speed SWB SLT+ Larmie White 4x4, DDIII and boost module and elbow ISSPRO boost and pyro gauges, 3" Walker muffler, and soon the Edge
1980 CJ7 350, SM465
 
Swayse... sorry to hear about the two bad PE boxes... I believe all new products go thru a bit of "testing", even after you sell and install them. The VA did the same thing, and so on so on. I have the Blue Box, and love it, but it went thru a bit of growing pain also. Sure has run good for me!
I agree that the DD3s would outrun a PE... at least according to the chart, the DD3s make 105+HP, the PE has been posted at 75-80HP, unless you get it with the special program, then I haven't heard what it dynos at... . pesky dynos... they keep us all busy!

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Rob Hanson
1999 3500 SLT QC 4X4 6 spd, Braided SS fuel lines, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins E-Brake, Blue Box, Bosch 275HP injectors, Member of BOMB! (WW NW Chapter)

MyPics.com (pics updated 6/30/00)

I'd rather be... .
Cummin than Strokin.
 
Have the VA and 275 injectors. Love it!!!! Huge power increase with both and it is all I need. EGT's dropped 100 degrees - good point for hauling.

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2001 Ram 3500 dually, 4:10, auto, SLT+,anti-spin,custom side paint, Custom pin striping,Advanced Thermal Products Sound Blanket Kit, Smittybar nerf step,Geno's stainless wheel well trim, tonneau cover, air dam, chrome monster tip, mud flaps/chrome tips,pyro-trans-boost gauges, Bosch 275 Injectors, Van Aaken.
 
Below is unbiased data:

Stock 0-60: 12. 7sec
275's w/ Redneck Boost Module: 11. 0sec
Above with VA: 10. 5sec
275's with PE on level 1: 9. 5sec

On my truck, the VA gave very little improvement. I thought that maybe the transmission was "robbing" some of the improvement, but, as you can see by the time with the PE, the transmission is holding its own.

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1999 2500 QC 4X4 LB Auto 4. 10LS, Driftwood, CD player with Steering Wheel Controls, Power Driver's Seat, 275HP Injectors, Boost Regulator & Elbow, K&N Air Filter, Brushguard, Spray-in Liner, 285/75R16 BFG AT KO's, Nerf Bars, Black Diamond Plate Deep Well Tool Box, Mopar flat antispray guards (front and back)
2000 Yamaha Big Bear 400 4X4
NRA Member
 
Junebug and others... did a little searching, and found the following info... a dyno was performed on the va... showed 40hp at 2200rpm. Search the archives for more data. This type of data is "for real" dyno numbers, not "pesky" estimates. Of course, it would be nice to have each product installed seperately, and dynoed all on the same rig and the same dyno.

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Rob Hanson
1999 3500 SLT QC 4X4 6 spd, Braided SS fuel lines, Mag-Hytec Rear Cover, Cummins E-Brake, Blue Box, Bosch 275HP injectors, All-steel Cowl Induction Hood, Member of BOMB! (WW NW Chapter)

MyPics.com (pics updated 6/30/00)

I'd rather be... .
Cummin than Strokin.
 
HVAC, I hope you aren't inferring that the VA CPC only makes 20 HP! If so, consider yourself WRONG again! I have dyno results to prove it (as do others)! In addition, first, you were pimping the DD injectors, telling everyone that might want to go with the Bosch 275 HP injectors that they were wasting their money, now it's the Power Edge -vs- VA CPC attack. An accurate comparison is welcome however, out and out BS should be left off this board! What you have failed to realize is that many of us have been in this game a long time and are sick and tired of wasting money on the flavor of the month, new ("revolutionary"), power enhancement accessory. So it's the Power Edge this month, don't you think TST and Blue Chip will fire back with something "better"? With the kinds of false statements you have been making on this BB you have certainly lost any shred of credibility for objective product evaluation (unless of course it agrees with whatever you are peddling "today"). You should realize that you are held to a higher standard (as are ALL vendors), as you have a monetray gain at stake with your opinions whereas, my opinion is just that... an opinion. I have no possible monetary gain to be made from ANY recommendation I make (and like it that way). Think about it, have you ever seen Mark Chapple (TST), Piers Harry (BD), Roy Rothlisburger (Mag-Hytec), Doug Hofeldt (Air Bulldog Hoods) and others spread bad information about a competitor? NO WAY! The best way a vendor can gain (and keep) customers is to ACCURATELY convey the positive attributes of their product without slamming the competitor or innacurately conveying performance data of same.

Chad, I really like my VA CPC however, if I had to choose between the purchase of the VA CPC or the Power Edge (at this time), I would purchase the Power Edge... but NOT from HVAC!!!! Instead, I would purchase it directly from the factory.

OBTW, I JUST came back from a trip that took me over numerous mountain passes, most over 5000-6000 feet. With the performance enhancements I have made (see signature below) I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO SMOKE! NONE! Try that with most of these other modifications touted on these pages. #ad


The bottom line is this, consider what is important to you, gather ACCURATE data on all available products and make the enhancements based on YOUR needs and requirements.

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'98. 5 2500 QC 4x4, (BLACK) SLT Sport, ISB, LWB, 3. 54 LSD, A/T, Glasstite Vision II canopy, Line-X spray in liner, 285/75R16 BFG A/Ts on 16x8 M/T Challengers, Warn 4X Boards, Mopar fender flares, front and rear NW Custom stainless steel/rubber mud flaps, Mag-Hytec diff. cover and trans. pan, Edelbrock IAS shocks, Mopar tow hooks, Reese Titan V hitch, Jordan Research Ultima 2020 trailer brake controller, VDO Vision gauges, '00 Sport grille, '00 Sport headlights with PIAA Super White 9007/9004 bulbs, 4-2-7+4 Brite-Box, PIAA Dual Sport 900 auxiliary lights, BD exhaust brake and TorqLoc, Prime-Loc fuel filter relocation kit, Bosch 275 hp. injectors, VA CPC, DD Boost Module, Banks Stinger wastegate actuator, BLACK '00 valve cover, Banks Stinger 4" dia. stainless steel exhaust system, BD LV V10/Cummins hybrid TC and valve body, BD modified transmission front pump and PressureLoc, plus many other trick modifications
 
my . 02

I have stage I's from DD.
I had the VA and loved the combo.
I now have a 'hot' PE instead of the VA and love it more.

Under heavy accel the VA would smoke with these injectors. With the extra hp of the PE, I get more smoke. Exactly what I would expect.


I can't wait to add the propane!!
Enjoy
 
I'm not so sure I've seen ANYBODY slam anyone elses product here. There have just been opinions stated one way or the other for whatever countless reasons. In my mind HVAC carries more credabilty than most because he has either personally tried or seen the use of all the products out there. He appears to me to be an enthusiast who is a bit more involed in BOMBing than most of us and is probably trying to recoop some of his R&D expenses. I can't image him making lots of money doing this. He is simply a dealer for PE and could probably also sell the VA or any other product if he chose to, if he hasn't already. He has his biases, just like everyone else posting here, but I don't personally see them as necessarily being profit minded.

Taylor Satterthwaite of Edge Products personally told me that they saught out HVAC to try out their product and almost had to beg him to even look at it. They have never met him personally and have only done business with him over the phone. I'm glad they did because I believe it was through one of his posts I found out about the PE. I'm one of the first 25 owners, and have the first ETH they tried it on.

I first decided to BOMB before I even got my truck. I read all the posts on the TDR for 6 months and looked at all BOMBing options. In my mind it settled down to injectors, boxes, and propane. I ruled out turbos exhausts, and air induction systems because I mistakenly had the assumption they wouldn't be needed for an ETH.

Banks has a great name and I thought about the Banks system but ruled it out because of price/performance reasons.

I ruled out injectors because I didn't want to get inside the engine. Not sure now whether that was a good decision. Maybe should have done injectors instead of propane. DR Performance looked interesting but was way over priced.

Propane looked appealing for many reasons - cleaner burning, better fuel effeciency, etc. but BULLY DOG was over priced, in my opinion, and when I called them, they didn't exactly make it sound like all that great of a way to go. It was also more complicated than I wanted to go initially.

I called and talked to dealers of all the boxes avialable. The Blue Box looked very good but there were so many injector pump failures here in SLC due to its use that it turned me off. It has a terrible reputation in this area for all those failures even though they resulted in, most cases, from improper use of the product.

I talked to TST a couple of times and they stated that they didn't recommend their box for the ETH because it wasn't making the kind of performance increases they desired, but they were working on the problem. They've since called and stated they've got a unit avialable but it only makes 40 hp extra because of clutch problems. That sounded like a pretty flimsy excuse to me but they were right about the very lousy ETH/DEE clutch. I still wonder whether they ever actually made any changes to their box for the ETH even though I feel they have a well deserved excellent reputation.

Everyone from all companies I talked to was polite and professional and seemed knowledgeable.

I finally decided to go with the VA and was looking for the best price when someone put a solitary post on this site about the PE with a hyperlink to their site. The next morning I called Brett of Edge Products and ironically he had quite a number of VAs he was dumping at very low prices but said I wonldn't want one after I tried the PE. He was right and 6 hours later I was running the PE.

I've tried 3 different power level 3s and have since upgraded my standard PE to the one which has propane control built in. After a couple of weeks trying to work out tank and regulator issues (I run vapor) which worked for my situation, I got propane working and have been running it for almost 3 weeks now. I like it alot but am still working on some of the details of tanks and pressure regulators to get things just perfect with performance and fuel milage. I have to be extremely carful with the throttle in 5th and 6th gears not to fry the clutch but the extra boost pressures in 2nd gear are wonderful.

The bottom line for me is that it was a no-brainer to go with the PE. Customer service, price, ease of installation, and performance sold it to me. The bottom line will be different for each one of us for untold numbers of reasons because if everyone thought the way I do, Ford would be out of business.



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'01 4x4 SWB Quad Cab
ETH/DEE
trailer tow group
camper special group
354 posi
PowerEdge module w/propane
pillar mounted combo pyro & boost guage
various appearance goodies
 
I got a few good personal emails this weekend. I think my best bet would be transmission upgrades. This is because I know I will not stop at the VA or PE box. It seems every six months I put more HP to the wheels. Its only a matter of time before I go to that point of no return where the transmission becomes too weak for those brake torqued power launches that I love so much.

Since this is my only ride to work, aka the place that pays my bills, I better make sure the rest of my driveline can handle what I'm doing to the engine.

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2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, boost module, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple black 340 car w/air! Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
 
I've been out of town for a couple of weeks at a horse show (World Championships - we were third place)and got back, saw this thread and thought I'd chime in.

First of all, HVAC is one of the guys on this forum that will take the time to answer questions, offer suggestions and opinions, etc. Frankly, I find his knowledge and experience very helpful. But I make my own decisions. He and I use our trucks for very different applications therefore the peroformance requirements of each may differ. Ease up on him.

I use the VA box, Boost Elbow, 4" exhaust, and K&N. On the way to the horse show we pulled over a set of scales in southern Arizona. The GCVW was 21,650 lbs. We went from Phoenix to Fort Worth Tx running 65 to 75 mph and averaged 11. 5 mpg. The truck just wouldn't slow down unless I wanted it to. For an application like this the VA is a nice enhancement and my clutch is still as tight as - well, never mind.

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Puller: Y2K 3500 Quad Cab Cummins 6spd, All options except leather, 4" exhaust, K&N Air Filter, VA CPC Box
Pullee: '98 Trails West 3 Horse Slant with 10' Living Qtrs and Mid Tack.
 
Hey John - pimping is a rude word.

HVAC is butt and elbows under the hood of his Dodge spending countless dollars and time experimenting to the beat of his own BOMBing drum. Whatever melts his butter is fine with me.

AND..... the good part is that he hustles to this site and tells us everything there is to know. He tells us good, bad, hot, cold, and all the benefits and pitfalls.

Is he biased? Probably. But I am, too. I don't appreciate your sour grapes and the mis-use of the word 'pimping'.

#ad
#ad
Joe
 
2 Cents... ...

HVAC. . Has My respect... . he has DONE the work that we are all CONSIDERING doing...

Is he a useful resource??? YES. .

Does He Have the "Dirty Fingernails" to prove he's been there... . YES...

Is he a GOOD MAN..... YES. . YES. . YES

However... ...

When Someone starts SELLING PRODUCTS... They become VENDORS!!!

Vendors have ALWAYS BEEN ASKED to "Advertise" in the TDR Mag... Not Wheel And Deal on the board. .

Other "Vendors" have gotten their ASS handed to them when they started touting their wares as superior to others on this board... .

It MAY be time for HVAC to join the rank of Respected, Knowledgable "Dealer".

Not just simply a TDR member/Guru... with no monetary stake in the game for our hard earned dollars...

Either that or give up the PE "Franchise" (For lack of a better word)...

Vendors with as much "Under the hood" time as HVAC have been asked to keep their posts on a "Off Topic" basis.

Those other "Dealers" also had good intentions at heart. . but were made to keep their buisness apart from the board.

Now Understand... . I LIKE HVAC... . !!!

We have written each other a few times... and Yes I have bought items from him... . 2 Boost Elbows were delivered from him with my Sincere appreciation...

So Understand where I'm Coming from...
If "we" (the TDR members) have RULES... they MUST apply to everyone. . or they apply to NO ONE.


I'm sorry if my post offends anyone... . that is not the intention...

When I read John's post I heard a certain amount of TRUTH in his words... .

Again... some may not agree with the words or the tone. . but try to listen to the message. .

It has validity.


Larry Quinn


[This message has been edited by Larry Quinn (edited 07-11-2000). ]
 
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