Deere engines in a ram?

[Dualstacks]

why dosent dodge ford or chevy look into putting a john deere diesel into the trucks? would this be a bad idea? they make a great engine simillar to the CTD. the JD 6081 power tech 8. 1 liter is 1620 pounds. is that to heavy? 170 hp & 559 ft lbs. stock.

the 6076t 7. 6 ltr is 1746 lbs. 170 hp & 529 ft lbs. these engines are easily capable of turning 3000 rpm for hours. they also meet the new emision laws. anybody got any ideas why not?

 

[illflem]

The John Deere dealer in Ellensburg, WA, who is also a Chevy dealer was putting 4 cylinder JD engines in their mid-sized Chevy PUs, made a real nice rig. The engines came from a common swap they performed on harvesters where they traded the 4 cyl JD for a 6 when brand new.

 

[JohnE]

JD used to run their engines in their fleet trucks.



You can find JD engines in a few odd places. My brother picked up a used 4 cylinder turbo diesel. It runs his snowblower.



JD is working at getting into the transit bus business, but not only with diesel. They are interested in the alternate fuel business, especially CNG (compressed natural gas). I know of a handful of gassers across the country running in busses.



BTW, Cummins just came out with a new CNG engine. It is still an 8. 3, but they updated the controls and upped the max hp and torque.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

JD? why

The idea is a good one JD in a pu. But the problem lies in engine legnth and the weight. The 5. 9 is close to 1200# and some consider this two heavy. GM for one witness, aluminum heads. The main reason for this weight differnce is the 7. 6 and 8. 3 JD engines are wet sleeve engines and designed for industrial use where weight is not much of a concern. The Cummins 8. 3 would be a Great engine for a pu but again the weight is the limiting factor. When you get into the 650-750 and up trucks then the wet sleeved engines are the power units of choice. I would suggest if you need a larger power plant than the 5. 9 or the 444 then move up to the medium class truck. Then you get the driveline and components to handle the power that they come from the factory with. The little Freightliner has a great choice of engines the 5. 9 or 8. 3 Cummins, The little Cat 3126 or the Mercadies MBE 900 all very capable engines that will run 860 FT LB torque ALL day and not have EGT or driveline problems. IMHO

 

[J DeMaio]

This would be very competitive with Cummins. There are many people who love JOHN DEERE!!!!!!!!!! Look at the tractors that are still runnin' after 40 years and bringing more money than they did new. The classic tractors: John Deere 3010, 3020, 4010, 4020, or the 1970's models that were turbocharged diesels would be great in pickup trucks. John Deere should work out a deal with Chevy, then we would have the best of both worlds. These engines are run for thousands of hours and worked very hard. My boss has one, a 1964 model. He just tore it apart for an overhaul and the bearings were stamped 1964. The tractor had ~6000 hours on it. It still ran all right but was starting to use oil. John Deere should take this message seriously!

 

[Gonzo 1066]

3020 4020

I would differ on the idea the 3020 4020 had a great engine. They were a groundbreaking design for the overall tractor. We owned 3 4020's and one 4010. But the engine was not its strong point. If you could put up with blown head gaskets and broken head bolts, a VERY marginal oiling system (cam driven spiral gear oil and injection pumps) and a poor design head (no cross flow). Than it was a good tractor. John deere was the last tractor manufacturer to turbocharge and the performance in the field showed it. The equipment dealers all advertised used JD tractors with the 50 series update engine. Why did they update even the 40 series engines? Poor oil pumps! The 50 series and current Deere engines now have a crankshaft driven oil pump. I am not trying to bash the big green or flame anyone but John Deere had done a fantastic job of marketing. And the current engines are world class. But they are industrial in design and nature. That limits the application to off road use. IMHO

 

[Dualstacks]

Gonzo, I think your probly right the wieght of these engine is a very important factor. JD does make some k=lighter engines around 1000 lbs & 125 horse. though they may not cut the mustard in competeing with the higher hp competetors.

and I also agree with the 4020's engine VERY poor design. it has been out of production for a long time.

 

[Dr.Evil]

GONZO's right, More so with the 3020 than the 4020. Most 4010/4020 4430 etc. only ever last 5000-7000 hrs. TOPS. And very few make it past the 5000 hr. mark. Even the Super Stock tractor pullers have a problem making them run. Their 519 & 613 CID engines were REALLY poor. Used in 5010/5020, & articulated 4X4's & Const. equip. I don't ever see JD being a player in the Over-the-road truck engine market. They are playing with the WANKEL engine for the military.

DENNY... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .....

 

[J DeMaio]

I've never heard of the broken head bolts or bad head gaskets on the 4020 motors. The down fall that was troublesome on these engines were the injection pumps and the camshaft drive gear. They were continued in the 1970's but updated. They had Bosch pumps, different head, and a turbo. When did John Deere quit producing the 404 Turbo Diesel? Not trying to cause problems but clear up some thoughts.

 

[Alan Reagan]

The John Deere engines don't turn up to very high RPMs do they? I thought they were limited to about 2300/2500 RPMs.

 

[Ray Torresdal]

JD isn't the answer

If the JD diesels are so great, why are we replacing them w/Cummins? The newer Deere engines may be OK, but the 3020, 4020 and older __10 series engines aren't in the same league as the Cummins! Ask someone who has replaced them with a Cummins. People replaced 5020 engines with 318 Detroits, for crying out loud, and thought they were gaining ground. That doesn't say much for the old Deere engines! Ray

 

[Gonzo 1066]

404 series Deere engines

Originally posted by J DeMaio

I've never heard of the broken head bolts or bad head gaskets on the 4020 motors. The down fall that was troublesome on these engines were the injection pumps and the camshaft drive gear. They were continued in the 1970's but updated. They had Bosch pumps, different head, and a turbo. When did John Deere quit producing the 404 Turbo Diesel? Not trying to cause problems but clear up some thoughts.

I am not sure of the year that Deere dropped the 404 turbo engine. But it was when they introduced the 50 series tractors. Late 80's?? The 50 series engine is a MUCH better power plant Finally a crank driven oil pump and injection pump. However I have yet to find a good reason that any engine manufacturer would gear drive a water pump?? (Read Duramax) Seems like a very bad idea. I have seen way to many 50 series deeres with antifreeze in the crankcase. The idea is to take load off of the serpeinteen belt but how often have you seen one of those fail? But I think that the same side ports is the major limiting factor on the JD 466 engines. The tractor pullers that make the JD 466 run switch to a aftermarket cross flow head. The cross flow head is a much more advanced idea. On a good day you may expect 250-280 HP from a JD 466 in continuious duty but not much more. Unfortunatly this is barely on par with the (little) 5. 9. If you are looking for a better inline 6 for a light truck try the IH dt 466. It is a proven truck engine and light enough to work in most applications. Capable of LOTS of HORSEPOWER and very inexpensive to overhaul.

 

[Smoker]

The 531 in the 5020's are not a hot rod diesel motor for sure. However, before we turbocharged our 5020, it would creep right on through the field. You couldn't smother the thing down. It would go slow, but it would go. After we turbocarged it this spring, it doesn't bog at all. We put duals on it, turned up the pump, and turbocharged it. It walks right on down the field and spins out before it bogs.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

531+619

My experiance with the 531 and 619s has been relitivly good. Your 531 is nearly the same engine that deere ran in the 6030. They were rated 175 HP from the factory and would run 225 all day long with no problems. The 619 in the 5830 forage harvesters turn 300 to 350 HP easly and as long as you dont "cowboy" them they seem to hang together well. They dont seem to be in the same league as the m11 or 855 Cummins though. Kinze manuf. has been replaceing 619s in the articulating (4x4) Deeres with the 855 Cummins and having excellent results.

I understand the main reason for this update is the longlevity of the cummins and they are MUCH cheaper to overhaul. You can buy a aftermarket complete kit for a 855 for under $1800.

Good luck with your 5020 they are a cool tractor. The driveline is as tough as nails. and they seem to have there own tough guy personality. PS If you havent installed a pyrometer as of yet do so soon.

 

[Dr.Evil]

I read an interview of John Kinzbaugh in FARMSHOW Magazine several yrs ago. He said the 531/619 deere engines were installed in about say 25,000 pcs of equip. and by the time of the interview, Deere had already made MORE than that many replacement engines for those tractors. THATS why He made the kits to put the 855 Cummins in the 4X4's. he also converted 100's of 4010/4020 and 5010/5020's over to Detroit Diesel power. A high school friend's Dad had 2 5020's with 318 Detroits. I have to agree with Gonzo that the biggest problem with the 380 & 404 CID diesels was antifreeze in the oil. The 4-cyl. had the same problems plus No power! I believe it was the 8630/8640 that had the bigger 531/619 engine in it, the little tractor, 8430/8440 actually had better resale value and would hold up better at higher output than the Big motor. I think the 4440 and 4640 were the last of the 404's, then came the 466's. in the XX50 series. The company I used to work for made machine tools for Deere. I saw aBUCH of the new engine blocks being machined in Our plant on Deere's machine tools. The blocks were sure beefy on the new engines!

DENNY... ... ... ... ... ... .

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

from what it sounds like JD has had its fair share of bad engines. it seems like to me this would be very very costly for them. I would think they would test things a little more b4 realeasing. i always thought JD made the best tractor engines what does everyone think about that here??? we had a 4230 jd i don't know what engine those had and a 4020 that had a turbo added to it. my favorite was always the 4020 cause of the trubo whine as a kid LOL no engine probs out of either that i can remember. i think it would be a kewl marketing thing if one of the big three developed an engine with JD put the john deere name on it and put it in a pick up. paint the engine green of course.

 

[J DeMaio]

The 4020 would have a 404 Diesel, non-turbo, Stanadyne rotary injection pump, from the factory of course. The 4230 would have had a 404 Diesel, factory turbo, updated head, Bosch in-line pump with fuel adjustment outside pump! I always thought these tractors were fairly strong and ran for a long time with little problems. If there were any problems with coolant/oil, it was due to the seals or the wet sleeves. Just my $. 02 worth. I agree with ya!

 

[Gonzo 1066]

sorry deere!!

Sorry If I misled anyone. Deere has built many fine engines. The 4020 "404" was a good engine when it was first designed and continues to be so. It however does not rank with todays modern diesel engines be they Cummins, Cat, IH, or Deere. The problems we had with our 4020s were not critical however they were annoying. We were running those tractors HARD and long. The limitations on our turboed 4020 showed up when we tried to run over 120 HP in the field. That is when the head gasket problems started. Then we switched to IH tractors (806,1206s and 1456s" our engine problems went away. Eather one of those tractors would run 175 HP in the field all day. The 1206 was a early example of the (little engine that could) it is a 361 small by some standards but the efficent head and turbo evened the score. Now stock engine to stock engine, hours to overhaul was about the same. When the 4430s came out we bought one and we were very impressed.

I agree, if Deere would design a engine that would meet specs for the PU market it would be worth a look. IH had been building a small block I6 360 CI and it is a proven performer, light in weight and wet sleeved. It would work very well in a pickup, have power to spare and be in frame rebuildable. IMHO

 

[Blakers]

If I had a John Deere diesel, I would want the 830 2-cylinder engine - talk about torque at low rpms!!



Blake

 

[rhoads]

JD power

Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhh! Got 2 140's in the shed out back and they are getting nervois!!!Wife had to park the fergson against the door's!!!!!!!!