Delete and Upgrade

[fastphin]

I am a retired engineer who use to work in the heavy machine equipment design and am very familiar with diesel engines design parameters.
That's my background OK!

Now most users who modified the 5.9L engines were almost always warn to keep the EGT's under control and not to go above 1250F. That was a safe limit for EGT’s temps on the Cummins engine and boost pressure was also establish at a safe limit which is in the booklet also. Even though I have a 6.7L engine I choose to use the limits that where establish for the 5.9L by users on this WEB site and published in the Turbo Diesel Buyers Guide.

This information is readily available in the Turbo Diesel Buyers Guide starting on page 50 under the title Performance Enhancements 1989-Current. This is what provided me with my Data points for my modified truck. This is free to download and is on the LH side column which every Ram owner should read.

Now a Stock 2007.5 and up equipped with the DPF in regeneration mode can and will see EGT’s in the 1450F especially when towing. I and several others have seen this before we have deleted. These temps are OK on a stock truck since the engine was designed to handle these temperatures.

The first item anyone should buy for their Turbo Diesel should be a good set of gauges or the EDGE Insight Monitor to establish a base line for their truck to read the EGT's Boost and other operating parameters.

Just my $0.02

Jim

Thanks. I read about the regenration for the non delete temps needed at 950F. I will look to delete when warranty is up.

 

[RVTRKN]

I am a retired engineer who use to work in the heavy machine equipment design and am very familiar with diesel engines design parameters.
That's my background OK!

Now most users who modified the 5.9L engines were almost always warn to keep the EGT's under control and not to go above 1250F. That was a safe limit for EGT’s temps on the Cummins engine and boost pressure was also establish at a safe limit which is in the booklet also. Even though I have a 6.7L engine I choose to use the limits that where establish for the 5.9L by users on this WEB site and published in the Turbo Diesel Buyers Guide.

This information is readily available in the Turbo Diesel Buyers Guide starting on page 50 under the title Performance Enhancements 1989-Current. This is what provided me with my Data points for my modified truck. This is free to download and is on the LH side column which every Ram owner should read.

Now a Stock 2007.5 and up equipped with the DPF in regeneration mode can and will see EGT’s in the 1450F especially when towing. I and several others have seen this before we have deleted. These temps are OK on a stock truck since the engine was designed to handle these temperatures.

The first item anyone should buy for their Turbo Diesel should be a good set of gauges or the EDGE Insight Monitor to establish a base line for their truck to read the EGT's Boost and other operating parameters.

Just my $0.02

Jim

Can you please expand on your statement, the allowable EGT increased over the years, notably the 04.5 and up. The valve seats and other parts were upgraded to handle the increase in HP and performance. I'm asking for an opinion from an engineer point of view.

 

[Jim W]

Can you please expand on your statement, the allowable EGT increased over the years, notably the 04.5 and up. The valve seats and other parts were upgraded to handle the increase in HP and performance. I'm asking for an opinion from an engineer point of view.

I agree that the engines and the material that is used has been changed over the years. There is always design and material improvements over the years. I am aware that Cummins has allowed higher temps and HP to occur to the "B" series engine in the Ram trucks over the years especially the 6.7L engines. But I really can't comment on the design parameters of the Cummins engine without seeing the material specs for the valve seats, piston and so forth to say what the safe limits are. I do know that Cummins has over time redesigned and improve the piston cooling jets to allow for the higher temps that the piston see. This was explained to the attendees at the Cummins engine plant for the tour in 2013.

I also feel that being conservative on the engine temps, boost pressure and HP increase will beneficial to the engine and my pocket book. So I am using the first and second generation truck owner’s experiences for my lower limit base line. See TDR Buyers guide page 50. I than ran my truck for almost two years in the stock configuration with gauges install for almost the entire time; to establish a maximum parameter baseline. I and Harvey Barlow, where among the first ones to add gauges to the 6.7L engines from TDR crowd in 07.

I know this may not answer your question entirely. But to me having a safe design limit that was established by the early 5.9L engine folks; should and can be carried over to a modified 6.7L engine and towing any type of vehicle.


Jim

 

[cerberusiam]

The key is the allowable EGT's were increased because the maximum cylinder temps were decreased. Emissions design to finish the combustion in the exhaust tract rather than the cylinder.

The HP uprates required changes to valves and piston cooling to handle the increased in-cylinder temps, the exhaust manifold changed to handle the increased EGT's outside the cylinder.

EGT's read in the exhaust manifold are not predictive of what is actually happening in-cylinder. It was found early on that extended 1200 degree EGT's could and would result in melted pistons in a CR engine with mods. There are many more considerations to deal with on a CR than a 12V ever had.

The comparisons to a 12V don't work because the design is so different. Even the maximum temperatures range that has been acceptable for 20 years has changed but impossible to tell how much because of the dynamics of the CR engine control system. Absent more concrete info, we use the values we are accustomed to whether they are correct or not.

 

[Jeff Gurr]

I finally removed my erg and dpf. Used a Sinister delete and a raceme tuner., replaced exhaust from turbo back with 4" My 2011 has 214k and it has made a difference in the get up and go. Fuel mileage is alittle better about 2 mpg, hoping it keeps rolling like it has...

I know this is an old post but my 2014 CTD is new to me and considering the delete when warranty expires. How much louder is the truck exhaust without the restrictions of a DPF and SCR Catalyst downstream?

Thank you,
Jeff

 

[Jim W]

I know this is an old post but my 2014 CTD is new to me and considering the delete when warranty expires. How much louder is the truck exhaust without the restrictions of a DPF and SCR Catalyst downstream?

Thank you,
Jeff

Jeff,
I see no reason for you to delete your truck since this is a 2014MY truck. The emission equipment and fuel mileage has really been improved over the early 2007.5 and up trucks with the introduction of the SCR system in 2013. If this was my truck I would leave the truck stock. The fuel mileage improvement for your truck on a cost bases would not offset the cost of the components to delete your truck. I also believe you would only pick up maybe 1 or 2 miles per gallon over stock truck if any at all.

The reason I deleted my truck was to improve the reliability and drivability of my truck. In the first year of ownership I had 4 "CEL" and one recall for the emissions on my 2008 truck. To me that was too much; so, I investigated what was available and the reviews on the different tuners that were on the market at the time. I spent at the time a little under $1,800 to delete my truck to gain better reliability and drivability with an increase of 2 to 3 MPG over what the truck was when stock. I have not followed what the new cost for tuners and monitors but I believe with a new TBE muffler system this will be somewhere north of $2500. Is this worth the cost to you?

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Jeff Gurr]

Jeff,
I see no reason for you to delete your truck since this is a 2014MY truck. The emission equipment and fuel mileage has really been improved over the early 2007.5 and up trucks with the introduction of the SCR system in 2013. If this was my truck I would leave the truck stock. The fuel mileage improvement for your truck on a cost bases would not offset the cost of the components to delete your truck. I also believe you would only pick up maybe 1 or 2 miles per gallon over stock truck if any at all.

The reason I deleted my truck was to improve the reliability and drivability of my truck. In the first year of ownership I had 4 "CEL" and one recall for the emissions on my 2008 truck. To me that was too much; so, I investigated what was available and the reviews on the different tuners that were on the market at the time. I spent at the time a little under $1,800 to delete my truck to gain better reliability and drivability with an increase of 2 to 3 MPG over what the truck was when stock. I have not followed what the new cost for tuners and monitors but I believe with a new TBE muffler system this will be somewhere north of $2500. Is this worth the cost to you?

Just my humble opinion.

Perfect! Thank you Sir, you've convinced me to leave it alone and frankly I wanted to, at least unless there was a catastrophic failure of the emissions system. You're right it is not financially expedient but was looking more at from a horsepower/torque improvement of which so far I've not found a lack of.

Jeff

 

[cerberusiam]

The SCR trucks are a different animal, lots more sensors and things to delete. They really don't suffer the fuel contamination problems that early 6.7's did as the EGR is radically reduced, still some but only minimal compared to an 08 engine. The DEF pump and sensors are a problem if they quit, truck shuts down after a while and to the dealer it goes. Most delete because they do not want to deal with the potential issues on the road. If the people driving them can be believed they do pick up quit a bit of mileages with the deletes, some is probably due to the tuning but 4-5 mpg at times is not unusual depending on the driver. You could leave the systems intact and just tune it for better performance and efficiency. That way if you to trade it you can easily do that without a reinstall of the parts.

 

[Regcabguy]

You should tell that to all the programmed 6.7's that I have had to pull heads on:-laf

Yep. 6.7 HG replacement and head studs in some cases keeps Joe and Pablo busy.