Delivery Valves?

[Old Smoky]

I called a local diesel fuel injection shop about a governor spring today, and though I would ask about delivery valves. I though that since different valves worked well on a P7100 pump, it was worth looking into for the VE. He thought I was crazy for asking about the governor spring. So, when I asked him about the delivery valves it really seemed to confuse him. He said that they don’t need to be changed; there are no other options. But I have heard that there are different options. I asked him why valves with different relief volumes where used on the P7100’s. He said when the fuel is really turned up, going to different valves eliminated surging. I hadn’t heard of that being a problem. I asked if there was a performance gain by using different valves, he said there was none. From what I have heard, there is a performance gain by going to 181’s, 191’s, or laser cut valves. Am I wrong? Is it worthwhile to try to find a delivery valve with a lower relief volume, which would work well for our application? Am I barking up the wrong tree here?



It is really frustrating trying to work with different fuel injection shops. Nearly every shop I have talked to steps up on their soapbox and tells me, “you cant do that,” “ that wont work,” or just makes me feel stupid for asking questions. But, it makes me feel that much better when I prove them wrong.



Any help would be appreciated.



Mike

 

[Midnite]

I've run into the same thing up here in Anchorage unfortunately. In my case I was trying to find a shop to advance my pump timing. One guy said (his exact words) "mmm... never heard o' that!". I wasn't crazy about having Cummins do it, with their $90/hr shop rate, and in fact wasn't even sure if they'd do it at all (EPA fines). I ended up actually having to drive all the way from Anchorage to Piers' shop outside Vancouver, BC to have my pump timing advanced!



In hindsight, I probably could have had some success with one or more of the big rig shops. Keep checking around, I'm sure you'll find someone who's good with VE pumps.



Mike

 

[NeedMoPower]

I have found it real hard to talk "performance" with most pump shops, but I have played around with delivery valves. I really didnt notcie much improvement... maybe because I dont have enough air to burn all the fuel. I went with some dv's off an industrial pump (192 hp ve) and sent them to a friend and had them put on a lathe.

I noticed more smoke, a tad more power, and my pyro moves too fast for comfort! I havent dynoed the truck with the new dv's, but it was fun expeirmenting with them and I would probably do it over again. I have pictures if you are interested...

Cody

 

[Old Smoky]

Midnite,

I ran into the same problem with timing (among other things). A different shop said that it would cost $100, and 1. 31 mm is as far as they would go. I bought the Snap-On wrench (sp144) for $20, and did it myself.



NeedMoPower,

I am interested in pictures, and any other info you’ve got. Why did you have to put the 192hp valves on a lathe? Are you still running them? Did they affect anything else? Was the increased smoke on the bottom-end only, or even throughout the RPM range? Did you gain any top-end boost? How much did they increase EGT's? What would you try differently? How much did they cost? Where did you get them? Sorry for all of the questions, just curious.



Mike

 

[NeedMoPower]

I put the dv's on a lathe so they would flow more fuel... . i also got the dremol tool after them too!

Smoke is alot more on the bottom end

I can peg my pyro in a matter of seconds

I had 192hp pump for as a project pump so I already had the dv's

I have my wastegate set at 38 pounds... dont wanna go any further with the stock turbo.

I wouldnt really change anything to be honest.



Just dont expect massive gains with the dv's. I'm sure I could see the benefits alot more with a larger turbo. I will try to post some pictures when I get out of class tonight.



sorry if I forgot to answer a question.

 

[Old Smoky]

What would you think about using them in their stock form? Do you know the relief volume?



Mike

 

[NeedMoPower]

I'm not sure that you would see alot of difference using them in their stock form, but it might be worth a shot.

No, I dont know the relief pressures.

I'm having trouble with the pictures, but I will try to get them online.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I think that as our trucks reach the 300 RWHP level, you pretty much have to look at upgrading the turbo/exhaust manifold and/or the cam.

Basically we have far too much EGT to control with that other stuff in stock trim.

I look at what nascar mark did with his truck... 308 RWHP, and he was having some pretty darn toasty temps.

The install of the cam, the HX turbo started to address those temps. BTW, he was doing that with a "home tuned" VE. No mixing and matching other pump parts.



I've taken mine up a bit further lately too... I've put on the NW 14cm. With that on, my low to upper midrange boost just shoots up to 32 psi empty in 3rd. But I also have temp spikes I don't like too...





Bob.

 

[Old Smoky]

Bob,

Just looking for some more options.



"I've taken mine up a bit further lately too... "



Are you going to have some surprises for us after your next dyno run? I know what you mean about EGT issues. 1500* is hard to live with. At this point, things start to get expensive to control EGT's and smoke. Its nice to be able to safely use all of the power you've got. It seems like the 2nd gen guys run a bit cooler at this same power level. I am looking forward to jumping on the rollers.



Mike

 

[Midnite]

EGT Control

My understanding from talking with Piers is that our cylinder heads are the most restrictive of the three types (1st gen, 2nd gen 12v, 24v).



I'm a lot better with computers than I am with engines but maybe some good head porting would be the ticket?



Mike

 

[dzlpwr]

Old Smokey,



As for dv's go, I don't think there are too many variations available for our pumps that will give us a significant amount of extra fuel. I cut some down on the lathe also, but I had trouble getting the fuel flows even between cylinders. I did, however, stumble across some dv's that had no control collars and they might work rather well. I think if they were paired with some slightly weaker springs you could get enough extra fuel to make a difference. The collars on the stock dv's are for torque control and you could have smoke and egt problems at high rpms using these others with no collars. I guess I will have to order some and see what happens. lol After all, that is the fun in it.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Well, were I'm at now, is this... .

My latest tweaks take me thru all three gears, and just prior to topping out in 3rd, I'm going over 1300*F. I don't even get into 4th.



I have one or two things to try inside the ole VE. If they work out, who knows, I may get close to wildman's numbers.

I just don't know were I'm going to mount the fire supression system though... .



Again, I agree with the post on head flow. There IS a difference in how the head flows. Porting would definely help, but there is a thing or two to know in advance.



Of course you could always run a set of "Honkin 1RN's" like mark did... . can you say nasty

BTW, that's my special term for some butt nasty nozzles...

1RN's = 1 Run Nozzles... . after one run you need to pull them and change your oil... ...





edit: hey, how about you guys hitting the dyno's yourself... . I'd really like to see a decent foot race to hit 300 dyno'd RWHP in here...

Don't tell me your going to leave it to a vertically challenged Canadian to do it for you..... and YES it has to be a VE pump too... geeezz, give em an inch... .



Bob.

 

[SnoDawg]

Originally posted by BushWakr

.

edit: hey, how about you guys hitting the dyno's yourself... . I'd really like to see a decent foot race to hit 300 dyno'd RWHP in here...

Don't tell me your going to leave it to a vertically challenged Canadian to do it for you..... and YES it has to be a VE pump too... geeezz, give em an inch... .



Bob.

All you have to do is ship a dyno up here I would like to run my truck. I am sure I am nowhere near the 300 HP levels tho

 

[Old Smoky]

"hey, how about you guys hitting the dyno's yourself... . I'd really like to see a decent foot race to hit 300 dyno'd RWHP in here... "



Ok, Bob. First gen with VE pump. 300rwhp doesn’t do you much good if you only have it on the dyno. Meaning that the pump is turned up, or different nozzles installed, prior to dynoing. Shall we try for a 300+rwhp daily driver?



Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hmmmmmmm !!



Oo. Oo. Pitter Patter, Lets Get at 'ErOo. Oo.



Dyno Queen was never my style 'Smoky, besides, daily driver is what it's all about for me since it literally is my daily driver.....



You don't wanna see what Mrs BushWakr would do to me otherwise... . not a pretty sight...



BFT.