Destination Charges & "Regional Discount"

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I was at a lot this morning looking at the Invoice posted in the windows. Checking them against KBB & Chrome Carbook the options match for the most part, but the base price on the window for a 2500 QC 4x4 was 26,567 whereas Chrome lists it as 27,512 which is $945 more than what the dealer posted.







Here is how the dealer had it posted:



$26,567 basic 4x4 SB QC truck (code DR7H41)

$210 Portland PPA/EB-PF (code B50)

$275 Portland DAA (T50)

$740 Destination Charge (code 321)

-$440 Regional Discount





Those of you who have done invoice pricing what can you tell me about the two "Portland" codes? They all had it. Another scheme to charge more?



If I add the $210 and $740 charges plus the basic truck then the basic truck price matches the KBB & Chrome prices within $5. I think the KBB & Chrome "base" price includes destination charges so anything tallying up more is fluff.



What am I to make of the "Regional Discount?" If I throw that into the equation the net cost to me is $160 less than compared to Chrome's numbers:



Dodge Dealer: $27,352

Chrome: $27,512

= $160 less total from Dodge dealer, but then it's only as if "Regional Discount = $160"



If I decide to pull the trigger I want to have my numbers perfectly straight, and I will be splitting hairs!



Vaughn

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I called the local dealer and they say those "Portland" charges are Chrysler advertising fees. One is for national and one is for regional



Does anyone know if places like Dave Smith do these kinds of charges?



EDIT . . .



Can you guys who've gotten the "good deals" help me out? ie, list out:

--Base price of your rig (don't need any options)

--Total destination charges

--Advertising charges

--Regional discounts



Don't list your cashback or Farm Bureau or other rebates.



Thanks guys



Vaughn

 

[John_M]

Vaughn, I can't answer your specific question about local/regional prices and discounts or what "add ons" Dave Smith Motors charges. However, I am confident that if you call Dave Smith Motors 1- (800) 635-8000 you will recieve an honest and complete answer to your questions about pricing, regional "add ons" and discounts. I believe their "showroom" is open Monday through Saturday, only.

I live about 50 miles from the Dave Smith showroom and have already visited them a couple of times this year. Greer Hemphill is the salesman I have been dealing with and he is very knowledgeable. If Greer is not available, any of the other sales people will be able to help you.

For the record, I do not work for Dave Smith Motors and other than the fact that I once purchased a Dodge Dakota from them, have no financial or other interest in their company.

I'll be purchasing a new 2500 w/auto and HO Cummins in the near or distant future. I have to see how the 48RE works out and might even wait until the new EGR version is on the road for about a year or so. I will purchase from Dave Smith Motors or a more local dealer, Tom Addis Dodge in Coeur D'Alene, depending upon who gives the best trade-in price on my '96 Chevy. The other Dodge dealers in this area know what Dave Smith sells their trucks for and these other dealers will frequently meet or beat Dave Smith prices just to get the sale.

Best Wishes with the purchasing process.

 

[VietDoc]

Vaughn,

Although I got our '03 at $500 under invoice, yes I had to pay for the advertising AND the Chrysler mailing fee adn a couple of others for $3 or so.



Can't get away from it... . unless you want to pay $500 or what ever amount and then negotiate the dealer to pay them

I don't know about the Chrome you are talking about.

When I was going through the same things I noticed the regional discount is $500 if you want to pay MSRP and only $440 at or below invoice. Also the advertising is not on the MSPR pricing... . but who wants to pay MSPR I don't to the dealers and all the hidden things they have...



Good luck, doc

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

VietDoc, how hard did you have to harrang and cajole to get $500 under? Did you trade something?



I went by the dealership this afternoon and the guy I'd talked to before point blank offered to sell at $100 over invoice. I didn't have to beg, plead, grovel, etc. etc. to get that. So I may do OK and have the convenience of buying only 8 miles from home. But, he went on and on about how the large rebates are pushing the market down for used vehicles (read: LOUSY tradein).



Now that I've gotten pretty tacked down on the purchase $$, I gotta figure out whether to trade or sell. If I sell it myself I have to get about $2000 more than what I'd get trading-in to break even on taxes.



Vaughn

 

[VietDoc]

Well Vaughn, Sorry for the long post.

Vehicles in Utah are not selling very well?? Dealers know this too, but few admit it. When I advertised our '99, I had one reply to ads placed in 4 or 5 Utah papers/internet and Truck Trader. I had 5 or 6 replies from out of state, with 3 wanting to buy it!



Condensed version Pricing, researching, going to several dealers (Pherd and Dodge), getting all my ducks in a row for the '03 AND letting the salesmen KNOW I had lots of info. I took 3 months of visiting two Dodge dealers 2 Pherd dealers and two Dodge dealers via the internet & phone. Little things, like, "well you know I have been looking at the ferd and the wife really likes blah, blah. " "Well the ferd dealer has no haggle pricing blah, blah... . "Well we met a guy pulling the same trailer as ours with a stock ferd..... you get the picture. (these are what I used and more -- they are true too).



Little Longer version First I tried the Costco route and got $300 over invoice. Then I did the Consumers Reports data and learned details about invoice & Holdback. Went to www.kbb.com to get a "second opinion" on invoice.

I knew there is one Utah dealer that is kind of like Dave Smith in Kellogg, ID. But when I checked Dave Smith they were not as low as Quality Dodge in Tooele. I also thought I would look at a FeRd as my son says they are great..... well he can keep his fErD... . I went to a SLC dealer who has a good reputation for being a low priced dealer... Then I went to my local dealer and the salesman said they would meet or beat any any other price. I told him $500 under. There was no haggling, no arm twisting by me or by the salesman. I thought well I could try to beat him up a little, go a few rounds-- but why bother... We want to get our truck serviced there and then in a year or 2 or 3 get a PT Crusier -- so I left the showroom and no blood was spilt. Well I finally got the wife (checkbook) to go to a dealer with me and we took a test drive in an '03 SO auto and she said "buy it, but you have to sell our truck first" She said the '03 was quiet, had dual heat zones, power heated passenger seats and a bigger cab is all she cared about. I was responsible for getting one to pull "her" trailer.

In mid Jan two of the dealers would only give about $16,500 for our '99 (citing slow truck sales). So if I could sell it I was $$ ahead. btw she said I could not order the '03 until I had ads placed for the '99.



Ending Ads placed and we went back to the local dealer who we both liked and was as honest as the day is long and he told us we get to keep the rebate!! We signed the papers and it was done $500 under invoice and the rebates at that time were $1000... . We had a pleasant surprise Feb 3 as the rebates went to $2000!! Now we need to get the truck in by 28 Feb... ...



Please understand I am not associated in any way with any dealer nor do I get any discounts or kick-backs for referrals. And I will list more than one dealer so you can decide who you want to work with... You can buy from one of these OR try to twist your dealers arm with the info and tell him you are looking for a good price.



Opps btw. Our '99 went to a couple from Colorado Springs about a 10 to 12 hour drive... . they rented a car, left at 3pm Fri, went to the dealership for their financing, closed the deal and they were driving home by 3pm Sat afternoon. The point is, for tough dealers, let them know you can shop out of state if the local guy doesn't want to deal.



I will not list out of Utah Dealers as others have on other threads

Brent Brown Dodge (ordered our truck here!), 1825 N. University Parkway, Provo, Utah 84604, 801 373-2570 Ask for Richard Singleton, we like this honest salesman!

Fast reply over the Internet with a $500 Under Invoice. Quality Dodge 200 North Main St. , Tooele, Utah 84074-1610, 435 882-2000

If you are in Utah and go the Auto-by-Tell or Costco route you are referred to this dealership. Their Internet salesmanager quoted $300 Under. I could have gone and twisted their arm, but I already had what I needed. Larry H. Miller Dodge, 10985 S. Auto Mall Dr. Sandy, Utah 84070, 801 553-5500.



If you or anyone else decides to come to Utah to buy, let me know, I'd like to meet ya and help if I can... ... And if it is after 28 Feb, Hopefully I can give you a ride in our '03.....



best of luck, doc

 

[VietDoc]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

If I sell it myself I have to get about $2000 more than what I'd get trading-in to break even on taxes.

Vaughn

Not necessarily true. This is why we went to the dealership to close the deal. 1) they got their financing through the dealer.

2) I found out about "In and Out"..... In Utah at least, If I go through the dealer I get credit for the sales tax as if it was a trade in to the dealer. The dealer runs the paper work through, issues temp plates and pays off my loan. I get the balance to keep or use as a down... . But as I said I get, in my case, $1200 credit on my sales tax. Just like another rebate!!!

However, I did pay $250 for the documentation fees to the dealer for doing this for me... . Not bad I am $950 ahead for this game. $2000 ahead with the Dodge Rebate. 21,995-16,500= $5495 less advertising fees ahead of this game (Private sale minus what dealer would give me = my gain). Then there is the FB rebate too!!



Always looking to save a buck!! And who in their right mind wants to pay the state twice for the sales tax... . Some states have a real racket going.



doc

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

VietDoc, you really did your legwork! I do appreciate long, detailed posts



I hadn't heard of running my truck sale through a dealer to save taxes. Guess I better call them and ask about it. That would work real slick. Another big plus is, I could advertise my truck for a lower price than I'd feel like I had to beforehand and be able to sell it more quickly.



Being my salesman at Lithia Dodge of Tri-Cities offered $100 over I think I can soften him up a bit. I have spoken with Ronan Auto Body/Sales in Montana, Mid-Valley Chrysler in Grandview WA and Roundup Dodge in Pendleton, OR.



I'll let you know how this goes if I decide to try & pull it off



Vaughn

 

[Posm]

When I trade I get a price with and without trade. We agree upon the miles at trade during the 6 to 8 week build process and then I try to sell my truck on my own during this time. Do not forget to add in hassle factor (waiting on no-shows, waiting for their financing, ETC) and also the difference in sales tax when you price out your truck in the adds. In most states you only pay sales tax on the difference, so this may make a lot of change in your taxable amount.

 

[Ken B]

Vaughn,



Here's a couple more site's to consider:



Dishman Dodge - Spokane, WA



MSN Carpoint



I bought my first truck from Dave Smith and I'm considering them for my next purchase, but the folks at Dishman in Spokane have been up front and are doing everything they can to compete with Dave Smith. They treated my neighbor right with his 02 CTD purchase. Now I'm looking to buy an 03 and they have been very good to me (not associated with Dishman or Dave Smith in any way, nor do I receive any kickbacks for the praise).



The first link is to the Dishman website. You can do a search on trucks. . they have more than what is listed with pictures, info, and prices. You'll also find contact info there as well.



The second link is to MSN Carpoint. I've had very good luck with this web site. On the main page, upper left, choose the make and model you'd like to price out and it will run you through all the options and will detail your Invoice and MSRP and you can even print out a report at the end. The MSRP and options match the Dodge website "build a truck" section. Very useful site with any vehicle purchase and I feel confident knowing what the actual invoice is and working from there with the dealer.



Hope this helps, -Ken

 

[jgallentine]

Sales Tax

I am sure this is different from state to state, but in Missouri you have 90 days to complete vehicle purchase and sale in order to get a sales tax refund. When you buy a new vehicle you have thirty days to pay the sales tax. (the dealers do not collect the tax in Missouri the DMV/DOR does) If you sell a vehicle in that thiry days, you can show the bill of sale to the DMV to reduce the tax liability on the new vehicle. If you sell a vehicle between days 31 and 90 (after the tax on the new one is due) you can apply for a refund for the sales tax on the amount of the sales price of the vehicle you sold.



May not mean much to a lot of you as I know the dealers in several states must collect the sales tax at the time of the vehicle sale.

 

[VietDoc]

Another point(er)

Vaughn,

Dodge had a price increase about 1 Jan. I also think the destination charge went from about $740 to about $795??

The Internet pricing guides like Chrome, MSN, Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book, and the Dodge website reflect the new prices... . The trucks on the lots may have been sitting for a while and have older (lower) prices.



Whatever pricing guide I use, I always double check the MSRP of the Dodge site to make sure I have apples to apples and then use the pricing guide Invoice price.



It may be a lot of extra work, but I have caught errors I have made.



Rumor -- Rumor... Those who have bought from Dave Smith can you dispell this rumor... . Dave Smith dealerships charge higher documentation fees as much as $1000 when most other dealers only charge around $250. Also the best price I had from them was $150 over invoice. End of Rumor -- Rumor

Thanks for your help.

doc

 

[radar doctor]

New Truck

Nice article VET DOC, Well written, Seems like ive heard some of that somewhere before but you sure did you home work. Thanks for sharing with all of us. Can't wait to get that Great deal and drive a New 03. . Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[DPKetchum]

I called Akins Ford/Dodge in Winder Georgia. Asked for sales Manager,explained what I thought i wanted on a 03 3500 srw 4 dr H. o. six speed. He had a salesman call me back and told me stock or ordered $100. 00 over invoice then would add the $2000 rebate in. So Truck was 37and change,would sell for 32 and change minus $2000 made it 30000 and change. This was on the phone,Didn't know me/see me etc. Didn't even bring up financing etc.

 

[John_M]

Viet Doc

I just spoke to a new truck salesman at Dave Smith Motors in Kellogg. That company charges $69. 50 for the Documentation Fee.



Again, I have absolutely no financial or other interest in Dave Smith Motors or any other Dodge dealership.



Like you and all others on this great TDR site, I need as many accurate facts as possible before I make a $38,000 truck buying decision.



Best Wishes,



John_M

 

[VietDoc]

John, That's great! It was a Stealer who told me they charged those high prices to make up for the lower prices on the truck... . Typical of a competitor who can't compete... I was real happy to find a good much closer to home, then the stealer who told me about Dave Smith.



Thanks again for the accurate info. And I totally agree that this is a fantastic site... ... Wish I had known about it for our first CTD...



Doc

 

[KL]

I have lived in several different states and bought several vehicles and I always shop around before I buy. I have noticed that dealer documentation fees vary from dealer to dealer and some dealers don't have them (this has occurred in every state I have lived in). Dealer documentation fees help cover their cost of doing business and/or are extra profit.



Another factor can be regional advertising fees (they are included in the invoice price). The amount can vary slightly depending where you live. Therefore these fees do not show up on internet invoice pricing guides such as edmunds and kelly. They do show up on your dealers invoice pricing (some dealers will show you this & some won't).



A dealer can actually make more profit on a factory order because there are no finance charges while it sits on the lot and he can get the full factory holdback. Some dealers charge other fees, or raise the starting price above MSRP or require you to buy something else. Some pass on factory cash incentives (if there are any) and some do not. Sometimes the factory has special discounts depending where you live. On orders some dealers will honor the rebate and/or interest rate which was in effect at the time when the vehicle was ordered (even if its not in effect anymore) and some won't.



There are so many variables it can get confusing if the dealer you are dealing with is not a straight shooter. I have factory ordered most of my new vehicles, that makes it easier to compare dealers. When I picked up my factory order I was planning on taking the 0% financing instead of the rebate. On his own the dealer compared the end cost of 0% or the rebate (would have to take out a low percent loan instead). I ended up saving the equivalent of $20 per month taking the rebate instead .



The bottom line is the FINAL AMOUNT YOU END UP PAYING in regards to factory invoice. It's great that some people have still been finding some honest salesman out there. KL





P. S. VietDoc thanks for all the good information.