2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Detroit Locker

[JMcCoy]

Does anyone out there run a Detroit Locker or an ARB air locker in the front or rear? I tow a moderate amount of weight. I often take the truck on hunting and fishing trips which require the use of 4 wheel drive. I currently have the stock, Power Lock, limited slip rear and open front differential. I also plan to put a locker in the front as soon as I Install free spin hubs $$$ouch$$$. Any experiences or recomendations would be appreciated.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I've put a couple in on the Dana 60, but I don't reccomend them on a stock axle with the vacuum POS CAD. They put so much pressure on the axle disconnect, they usually don't lock or unlock well, and will eventually break something. If you have free float hubs with 35 spline axles, have at it. If you decide to run one, I'd go with the Air locker, as you can disconnect them remotely, and quickly, if you need to get in and out of 4x4 quickly. Once unlocked the CAD will engage and disengage normally.



Just my two bits. Good luck.



God bless,

Casey

 

[HHhuntitall]

And I didn't think about it, but I don't think you can get the lockers without 33 or 35 spline axle gears, so I think have to upgrade your axles to get the lockers in there. Hmm, I'll have to check that.

 

[JMcCoy]

HHuntitall, I appreciate your responce. I currently have the Posi-Loc cable operated CAD to eliminate the garbage vacuume CAD. I will be upgrading to 35 spline axles when I do the install of the locker. I Have heard about issues with the detroit locker pushing straight in a turn when towing heavy loads. I also have heard about issues with driving on Ice. Some say driving style can eliminate these problems. Detoits are considered the hot ticket in the south Flotida mud. I have run the detroits for hot rods and liked it, but I have never towed with one. I like the idea of the detroit because it is maintainance free and reliable. The ARB air locker sounds like a good concept. I just have conserns about reliability (compresser, air lines, fused, relays, wires, etc). Not to mention almost $1,000. 00 per axle without the compressor. OX cable opperated locker doesn't make a locker for our Dana 70s, not to mention the problems they have been having with the cable system. I would appreciate any personal experiences anyone might have. Thank You.

 

[SRath]

Just my opinion. Others have and will disagree.

I like a locker in the rear axle very much. I do not have one installed (yet) in my Dodge, but have run many thousands of miles for decades in Chevys with lockers; both GovLok and Detroit; loaded and unloaded.



The Dodge will be getting a locker since the factory PowrLok is simply not effective enough for my needs. Not even close.



I got a real good deal on a PowerTrax Dana 80 locker and might try it since Detroit does not offer a Dana 80 locker for 3. 54 gears, which makes no sense to me at all. They do have Dana 80 Detroit Lockers, but only for much lower (higher numerically) gearing. I also had to buy an open, stock Dana 80 carrier for the PowerTrax since, like the Detroit when fitted to a Chevy, the Powertrax only installs into open diffs.



Note: Somewhere here on TDR, though I have searched and cannot find it, there is an archived thread a couple years old about how to modify a Dana 70HD Detroit locker to easily work in a Dana 80 with 3. 54 gears. You need to drill and rethread the ring gear bolt holes to the larger Dana 80 size (9/16 IIRC) and you need to either machine or shim or both on the carrier bearing sides. That is the detail I cannot recall and would like to find out. The Dana 70HD carrier is different from the regular Dana 70 carrier and is supposedly the same strength as a Dana 80. So don't give up hope on a Detroit for diesel gearing.



Maybe if enough of us contacted Eaton, who bought TracTech, maker of Detroits, they would tool up some bolt-in Detroits for our trucks since most Dana 80-equipped trucks anymore are diesels and are geared higher than gas burners.



Locker-equipped trucks do drive a little different. If you like to power-slide around street corners, forget buying one. You need to take it easy around corners on dry pavement. Not that you're likely to break a Detroit powering through a corner, but the "BANG!" as it disengages/engages will sure make you think you did.



Consider that the military for many, many years ordered the K30 chevy trucks it used so extensively with Detroit Lockers in the rear axle. If Private Numbnuts can learn to handle one, you can, too.



It sounds too simplistic, but be sure to run tires that match EXACTLY in size and air pressure or you will feel the rear end of the truck squirrel a little every time you step on the gas.



I never experienced any 'pushing' with heavy loads, though I could see where real tight turns on dry pavement might give that feel.



I loved my lockers on snow and ice as well as mud. That said, lockers are "low center seeking", meaning, if you have the wheels spinning, BOTH are spinning and you no longer have an "anchor wheel". Spinning tires are like locked-up, skidding tires: They can move as easily sideways as forward. They can even pass you. Locked up trailer brakes are the number one cause of semi jackknifes.



If there is a crown to the road, or if you are on a sidehill, your spinning tires will cause the axle to go where gravity pulls it. The good news is you are MUCH less likely to be spinning your tires! Use some sense and restraint on the throttle and you will be fine.



I would not run any locker in the front axle of a daily driver unless it were selectable like the ARB or OX. It pains me to hear Ox is having cable issues; I thought they had a great design and were nearly bulletproof. Always wanted to try one, but like you said, they're pricey. .



I would not even add a limited slip, much less any locker, to your front axle until you upgrade to 1-piece axles, and why bother if they aren't 35-spline upgrades as well? I have a PowrLok limited slip I am setting up for front axle use (they are stacked to "break away" easier when installed in front axles). It will be slightly better than an open diff, but nowhere near as effective as a locker, without inducing bad steering manners.



If you have a rear locker, even with an open front diff you still have true "3-wheel drive" and you retain an "anchor wheel" for the really slick stuff. You would be amazed at how much the rear locker will compensate for an open front diff, and how much less you will even need 4wd.



My personal advice, unless you happen to be sitting on a limited slip for the front axle already like I am, is to focus first on a rear locker. Then save your money for solid shafts and a good selectable front locker.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Good advice from SRATH;



I over-read your question about the rear axle, as I was focusing on the front axle, as I've been experimenting with them. I've got two detroits in Dana 70s right now behind Cummins, two in Dana 60s, one behind a Cummins, another behind a stroked 440. I really am a fan of the Eaton's Detroit locker. They are darn near bulletproof, but can be rough on tires and shafts when you're loaded and on solid ground. Turning real sharp can peel tread like an orange and candy-stripe even 35 spline axles! Large mud lugs tend to take the punishment better; I guess they give more. I've never had a problem on sand or mud, and you can't beat them for that. I didn't suggest the Ox-locker, just for the cable problems you mentioned. I can't keep the cable from getting bent or broken in the brush, so I've just about abandoned them. Detroit's new Electrac-locker is next on my list of experiments, but they all take time and money, and when I have the time, I don't have the money... ... :\



As far as driving on ice, I've never had any problems, but my experience is limited here in North and West Texas. We get out and play in it whenever it happens, so maybe I have more than the average guy. The truck goes when it gets traction, and it's easier to drive than one without a locker, as both tires are pulling the same direction. Gravity and centrifigul force are the key players, naturally.



I've also got Dynatrac 35 spline axles and hub kits in my newer trucks. I wasn't going to spend the money on one more set of Dodge crappo-bearings..... The kits may never pay for themselves, but at least I won't have the broken crap laying in my floor every three months, and that's worth something, right? I love the double take from people when they walk by, look down at the rims, and then stop, turn around, and do a thorough look over!!! The locking hubs get 'em every time!! HA! If you really want to talk to someone that knows them in and out, try Randy's ring and pinion. Usually, I can get the second or third person, that knows exactly what I'm asking, and can answer any question I throw at them. 800-292-1031



Either way, good luck.

God bless,

Casey

 

[Pavemen]

I've put a couple in on the Dana 60, but I don't reccomend them on a stock axle with the vacuum POS CAD. They put so much pressure on the axle disconnect, they usually don't lock or unlock well, and will eventually break something. If you have free float hubs with 35 spline axles, have at it. If you decide to run one, I'd go with the Air locker, as you can disconnect them remotely, and quickly, if you need to get in and out of 4x4 quickly. Once unlocked the CAD will engage and disengage normally.



Just my two bits. Good luck.



God bless,

Casey

I run a lock-right in the front axle of my 1500 and its works fine with no real impact on the CAD operation. If you need to disengage the CAD and you use the OEM vacuum setup, just put the t-case in 2WD and the CAD will disengage. If its "stuck", which is possible even if you have an open diff. You just need to roll the truck a bit or just turn the wheels slightly so the tension is removed from the CAD and then it will slide back into place. The torsional load builds up in the axle and turning the wheels makes one wheel rotate more/less than the other relieving the load allowing the CAD collar to move



I now have a posi-lock installed and I can be in 4LO with (with front and rear auto lockers) and engage/disengage the CAD with the steering wheel in any position by simply moving forward slightly or turning the wheels.



I did not have the locker without the posi-lock for long, i found it easier to install the posi-lock than having to shift out of 4WD in a precarious position if I needed to turn in high traction rocks with the locker. Easily going to 3wd lets me turn then engage the CAD for true 4wd again

 

[LVJUNIOR]

I run a detroit locker in the rear and a detroit tru-track in the front. The rear works very well with zero problembs. The tru-track is junk in my opinion. It doesn't lock until you are half dug in.



My truck weighs #9360 empty and I have put a 35' goosneck behind it stacked with hay 5 bails high. I have towed in ice, snow, mud and dry ground and the locker has never given me any problems. I have over 50,000 miles on it so far and counting. I use the heck out of this truck in the mountains as it was built to be my hunting vehicle and I don't like to hunt around other people so we end up getting pretty far up into the bush

 

[JMcCoy]

Thank you all for the very infomative replies. You all have been a great help. I think I'm sold on the detroit in the rear. I will probably install a Lock Right in the front like Pacemen suggested. It should be accptable with the Posi-Lock. I will have to go easy on it though until. Hopefully in the future I'll be able to upgrade the front to an ARB, 35 spline axles, and free spin hubs.

 

[Hammer]

Sled Puller ran a Detroit Locker in the rear of his street/puller for years and I believe that his front was a E-Locker. Greensburg Machine did all of his work many moons ago and the gentleman who owns the truck today(it has been throught two other owners) still runs the truck as a dedicated puller with the rears like they were after Gene had them done.

 

[SRath]

To me, a Detroit Locker vs. any limited slip (or open diff) is like diesel vs. gas motors.

The diesel is noisier, fuel costs more, and you need to do a little more to prevent problems in cold weather. But the advantages far outweigh those small, but real, considerations.

Both are much stronger, last longer, and are the last word in "gittin' er done!"