Deutz or Cummins ?

[50BMG]

A friend of mine who really likes lightweight simplicity is wanting to build a Wombat / Hummbug VW based (Humvee look a like) and asked me what I thought about it. I told him that the old air cooled VW engines while lightweight and simple, lacked power and if it was me I'd use a Deutz if he wanted to stay aircoooled or a 4BT Cummins which are pretty simple themselves. I just don't personally know if a Deutz is lighter or heavier than a 4BT Cummins or if any Deutz can compete with the Cummins power and weight wise Horsepower per pound and FT/LB Torque per pound ? I'd really like to find out myself before he asks me and I have to scramble to get information. I'd really appreciate if someone can help me out here. Thanks

Regards,
50BMG

 

[NIsaacs]

Here is a link, metric numbers tho:

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB...n-Sheets/RK=0/RS=NjyC6ai5EQKKxzP0kOdPHKBJOe4-

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB...ecs.html/RK=0/RS=xohtjPzseWsW3no_W6.gqUGHF8Q-

PS: I would think that who ever has the best support for repower and parts in general would be important.

Nick

 

[50BMG]

Thanks NIsaacs,
Truth be told I don't know a whole lot about Deutz diesels except that some are air cooled just thought and since he's using a VW based vehicle and he wanted to use the air cooled VW engine at first that maybe an air cooled Deutz might be more to his liking. But I don't really know which Deutz would be equivalent to or better than a 4BT Cummins with ~106 Horsepower and ~265 Ft/Lbs of Torque weighing ~764 Lbs ? Thanks for any thoughts, opinions, or answers.

Regards,
50BMG

 

[NIsaacs]

One thing about air cooled engines it requires a special cab heater, that might be an issue

Nick

 

[DonFitzwater]

While the Deutz air cooled diesels are kinda cool......it's more of a novelty now a days. As mentioned, stick with something modern, liquid cooled and has parts available.

The last couple Deutz engines I've seen for sale were ridiculously over priced.....not sure why either.

 

[50BMG]

I agree DonFitzwater,
there are many modern performanceor power upgrades for a newer Cummins like the 6BT and 4BT Cummins and while I'm no expert nor claim to be I do have a better knowledge base with the Cummins engines ( at least the ones that were made in 1994-2005 like the 12 valves and the early 24 valves and the performance of power upgrades for them) than pretty much any Deutz Diesel.

Regards,
50BMG

 

[TFucili]

Deutz is a very good engine, but parts are $$$$ and they need looked after in dirty environments. Back in the late 70s early 80s(?) Diamond Reo built some heavy trucks that were Deutz powered(anteaters). When I was back east, a local quarry had a fleet of them. They ran well and made decent power, but due to lack of maintenance(keeping the fins and fan clean)they burned them all up pretty quickly.

 

[Wayne M.]

50BMG, can you tell us more about the project? Is this Beetle based? I'm having a hard time imagining this.*
Anyway, we have/had fairly large Miller welder/air paks that are Deutz powered. Some are 4 cyl blocks with one lung being the air compressor. Very high quality and trouble free engines. No idea about performance tuning. Many moons ago we had Trojan wheel loaders with inline 6 and V8 Deutz. Again, good units. These machines had Espar heaters.*

 

[50BMG]

Basically a Wombat or Hummbug is a VW based kit car using the classic VW chassis. It bacically bolts on to where the old body was. I told my friend that I'd help answer any questions he had, but also told that him at ~$9400 dollars plus labor that maybe he should look elsewhere.

Regards,
* * * * * * * *50BMG

 

[mini14]

actually I thought they were technically considered oil cooled

 

[TFucili]

The few that I have worked on had a ducted, belt-driven axial fan, and panels to remove for service and cleaning the cooling fins. You are right, though, that they are air/oil cooled.

 

[Wayne M.]

I know the OP wants simplicity, but for a beetle based project, I saw a custom bug powered by a late model turbo Subaru boxer. Looked like it grew there.*

 

[TFucili]

Turbo Subarus are popular in the sand-rail world, too.