Archived Died after 5 sec, cranks, won't fire

[MAX A/C]

'01. 5 HO, all stock, 109K miles, newer lift pump. Bought used with 100K, so I don't know any history.



Running some erands, at my last stop the truck started as usual, but after 5 seconds it quit as if someone turned the key off. Then cranked only, no fire. AAA towed it home, and I'm trying to figure it out.



Lift pump whirs away, got fuel coming out when I loosened the VP44 inlet (schrader valve banjo). If it's supposed to spray out a lot, it didn't. Just maybe a tablespoon full with the 2-sec key on lp cycle.



Battery power good. I took off the underhood Power Dist Center cover, and it's not getting voltage to the main leads (the ones with the 140 amp alternator fuse) with the key in the on position. Is this correct?



Codes thru odometer: 1693 and 0562:Charging System Voltage Too Low Supply voltage sensed at ECM too low. (These may be left-over codes from when my batteries died, and I took them out and it sat for a week like that while I got around to replacing them. )



I disconnected batteries for 2 hours to reset anything that may need it. No luck.



This is a dedicated-camping vehicle, sits most of the time. However, I did just get back from a 4,000 mile trip--it ran flawlessly. I'm sure glad it started fine when I was in BFE Death Valley!



Help. Any suggestions?

Scott

 

[Missouri Mule]

Try cracking open a few injecotrs see if your getting fuel to the injectors. If not your VP 44 mite be gone or you lift (fuel) pump mite of quit( they will make noise without pumpin fuel).

Crank position sensor mite haved failed.

Cam shaft postion miite have failed.



The 140 amp fuse is for the alternator and mite not get power until engine is running which the Crank position sensor lets the PCM/ECM know the engine is running.

 

[MAX A/C]

Thanks, Bill.

I cracked #3 & 4. No fuel to #3, and #4 had some very bubbly/foam come out.



Last night, I got to wondering if the tank is empty. The guage shows 1/4, and the low fuel light did not come on; but maybe the float has gone bad. During my trip it would hang on Full forever, then relatively quickly drop towards E. I always filled up before it got this low, but on the last leg of my trip I wanted to just head for the barn.



I may want to drop the tank for a look see before I put fuel in to try and start it. I'll repost with results from the tank findings. I don't know what to look for there, so I'll have to do some research and possibly buy a service manual.



Scott

 

[p-Bar]

why don't you open up the low pressure side and see if you are pumping fuel to the VP

 

[DieselLady]

FYI When you tested the lift pump for fuel output, it should be spraying all over the place. A tablespoon is not enough. I would start there, and if you have fuel in the tank you need to replace that and keep your fingers crossed that it didn't take out the injector pump.

 

[MAX A/C]

"why don't you open up the low pressure side and see if you are pumping fuel to the VP"





OK, but don't know how. Break it down barney-style for me and I'll give it a try.

 

[JLandry]

Scott,



You mentioned you were going to verify that the tank has adequate fuel. Did you do that yet?



Also, have you checked the fuel pressure (with a gauge) at the VP44 inlet valve (the Schreader fitting) when you bump the starter to get the lift pump to run?



Those are two very basic things you should eliminate as culprits first.



If you don't have adequate fuel pressure at the VP44, then you can start looking for the source of that problem like a dirty fuel filter, a fuel supply problem, or a failing lift pump.



Best regards,



John L.

 

[JoshPeters]

I'd also be looking to make sure you have power where your supposed to. I believe that 140amp fuse is hot all the time.....

 

[MAX A/C]

Thanks for the replies. DieselLady, that's what I thought should be happening. Thanks for confirming.

Scott,



You mentioned you were going to verify that the tank has adequate fuel. Did you do that yet?

Not yet, I was holding off thinking that I didn't want to add 5 gallons if I was going to drop the tank. I will go get the fuel now so we can eliminate that angle.

Also, have you checked the fuel pressure (with a gauge) at the VP44 inlet valve (the Schreader fitting) when you bump the starter to get the lift pump to run?

No, I don't have a guage. Need to order one. It will be on my list with anything else needed to cure this problem.

 

[MAX A/C]

I'd also be looking to make sure you have power where your supposed to. I believe that 140amp fuse is hot all the time.....

Can anyone confirm this for sure?

Scott



On edit: Josh, your'e right. Stupid me, I guess I don't know how to correctly hook up test leads. My mistake was that I put the hot and ground test leads to the hot and ground of the PDC which read zero. But I just tested the PDC hot while going to a battery ground... there's 12. 7 V.

Thanks

Scott

 

[MAX A/C]

I added fuel to tank. After second starter bump to let lp run, I heard a definate pitch change as if the lp had found lots of fuel. I was **sure** it would start, but no.



I cracked the VP inlet and had lots of fuel there.



I cracked #3 & #4 injectors. I don't have anyone right now to crank while I watch, so I cranked and then looked. Fuel under #4 but #3 area completly dry.



I went to crack other injectors, but I need the correct size flare nut wrench as my 3/4" starts to round off. What mm size are the injectors?



At this point I am at a loss as to why the VP was not getting fuel before, and now that it is, still no fire. Is there any other way to check the VP (other than bench test)... or is cracking all 6 injectors and looking for fuel the best way?



Scott

 

[JoshPeters]

Keep the injectors cracked.



How long did you crank? I've had trucks take 30 seconds to get the air out of the VP and such.

 

[icman95]

Yup, I was just going to suggest that. If you ran out of or low on fuel, you'll have air in your fuel system and it takes a while to purge it out. Truck won't start without air gone.

 

[DieselLady]

Open up at least 3 lines, and enough to get lots of fuel out. You will make a mess but then you will know it has fuel. THen tighen them down and crank again. It should chug to life and bring the others with it if the VP is still good. Best feeling in the world when that happens. Worst if it doesn't .

 

[MAX A/C]

***We have ignition and lift off!!!!****



Opening 3 lines and cranking more than what I had been doing was the key. I even heard it 'try' to fire with the lines open... that was encouraging.



Soooo, my fuel guage lied to me. I'll tackle that and work on an aftermarket fix. I've driven various diesels for 20 yrs and over 400K mi and never had such a problem getting one re-fired after losing fuel... but I guess the mechanical ones aren't so finicky???



Thanks to all for your help!!! The TDR is a great resource.



Scott

 

[DieselLady]

Don't you just love it when that happens.

 

[icman95]

Don't feel bad. I've been bitten by the air in the lines thing myself, but for a different reason. Happened when mine was just 3 weeks old. Would crank and crank but wouldn't start in my driveway. Turned out that the o-ring around the fuel filter housing was bad and let air in.



Also, the first time I changed the fuel filter, I made the mistake of not pouring diesel into the filter housing before closing it up. This trapped the air inside and the damn thing was dead in the water for about a 1/2 hour before I could get it going. Lesson learned. Now I get a little bit of fuel in a gas can to pour into the filter when I change it. Works great.



Glad you were able to fix it the cheapest way possible.

 

[MAX A/C]

Glad you were able to fix it the cheapest way possible.

The 19mm flare nut wrench (Craftsman) cost $22. But it sure is purdy. :-laf

 

[JoshPeters]

The 12v Mechanical systems are no where near as finicky. More cranking, but I have never cracked lines on DOZENS of trucks.

 

[DieselLady]

Don't feel bad. I've been bitten by the air in the lines thing myself, but for a different reason. Happened when mine was just 3 weeks old. Would crank and crank but wouldn't start in my driveway. Turned out that the o-ring around the fuel filter housing was bad and let air in.



Also, the first time I changed the fuel filter, I made the mistake of not pouring diesel into the filter housing before closing it up. This trapped the air inside and the damn thing was dead in the water for about a 1/2 hour before I could get it going. Lesson learned. Now I get a little bit of fuel in a gas can to pour into the filter when I change it. Works great.



Glad you were able to fix it the cheapest way possible.

I don't know if this is an obvious thing or not but if you bump the starter on the 24 valve trucks, but don't start it, leave the key in the run position the lift pump will prime the filter. Do this about 3 or 4 times and it will send all the air to the return line and back to the tank. Then you just start it up and away you go. No messing with filling the filter up.

Some people may not know about that little trick. Just an FYI