Diesel Candidate?

[kohldad]

Looking at upgrading my 04. 5 5. 9 NV5600 to a new 2013/2014 3500 truck. Have loved my current truck, but want to upgrade to an auto for numerous reasons. Other option would be to go with the 2014 6. 4 gas engine. Based on 80,000 miles over 6 years, seems like the gas/diesel is a break even cost wise when the def, extra maintenance, purchase price, and resell value are all taken into consideration.



Would really like to get another diesel, but am afraid I will end up with issues due to my style of use.



1) 2 - 4 days week daily driver with a one-way commute of 10 miles. (I share a Camry with my wife the other days)

2) 1x month may visit folks with a one-way drive of 30 miles

3) on average every other month would get on the highway for a few hundred mile camping trip. This is the only time it would get over a hour continuous highway speed. (under stand this is the important part).

4) 2x - 10x month haul a boat about 15 miles each way.



Most driving is at sea level, but camping trips usually take me into the mountains but max elevation is 6,000'. Until I can retire in about 6 years, may only see the rockies once for a couple weeks so can't justify the diesel for one the trip.



The boat only weighs 2,500#. But the reason for needing the 3500 is I carry a 3,000# truck camper so need the payload capacity. But not sure if even the tc will work the engine as needed to keep the emissions happy.



While I understand the love for the diesel and it's power, I question if my application calls for it.

 

[TCDiesel]

I hear Ya, Its $10K more for the 6. 7 Aisin Combo, I just cannot go back to gas for any length of towing... . Once you have the feel of the power in your blood, you just cannot get it suck out by Gas...

 

[rscurtis]

If you figure resale value and fuel cost per mile into the equation, that Hemi is going to leave you standing at the altar. According to KBB.com, the $5900 Cummins option in my signature truck now returns $6200 at resale, so the net cost of the option was negative. It may be a worthwhile option for a government agency or municipality for local stop-and-go driving, but I wouldn't consider a gas engine in any HD pickup. The only time it would have made sense is in a previous Ford where you had the Hobson's choice of the 6. 4 diesel or the V-10 gasser.

 

[wyosteve]

Kohldad, as much as I love my diesel, if I was in your shoes doing what you described, it would be a gas truck. No Brainer!!

 

[DonFitzwater]

Diesel!!! I put 25k a year on my 6. 7 with the majority being short town trips. No problems from the emisions system with the exception of a cel related to a wiring issue. (And half of this short tripping is in some cold temps!)

 

[Wertles]

Personally, I would go with the hemi. The diesel is way overkill for your stated purposes. As much as I love my 13, if I were using my truck as you do, I would have the hemi in a heart beat. It has plenty of power, especially for a 2500 pound boat. My friend with a 2500 hemi pulls his 10,000 pound 5th wheel with ease. He even pulled my 5er one day in an emergency and I was surprised at how capable it was (engine wise, not suspension wise).

My advice, save your money now, and at every oil change, tire change filter change etc...

 

[SSteilow]

You could go with buying the 68RFE. It would counter the up front cost for the Aisin. The way the 3500 SRW 6. 7L, always seem to be on restrictions trying to get the Aisin at times for the 2014's. To be truthful go with what your gut calls for and go with the 3500 6. 4 Hemi. Best of luck with your choose.

Scott

 

[crispyboy]

With your intended usage I think you would be just fine with a gas motor. I use my truck somewhat similar to you and if I had to do it over again I would opt for the gas engine for the mere reason that diesel emissions systems are costly to repair - I have a current on going saga... ... ... $$$$
For the most part a gas engine will be trouble free for you. Most of them should have cylinder deactivation and 6 speed transmissions now which allows them to be more economical unloaded and tow better while loaded. In our area gasoline is . 82/gallon cheaper than diesel... ... ...
If your local terrain is hilly you may want the diesel because the truck camper and boat combo is getting heavy.

 

[JR]

Keep the 04 and buy a commuter to DD...

 

[jgillott]

Keep the 04 and buy a commuter to DD...

I'm the wrong person to be giving advice here since I have way too many vehicles for this point in my life, but I agree with this idea 100%. If your current 3rd gen still fits your hauling/towing needs, keep it around and buy another vehicle for your daily needs.

 

[Wingate]

This is a no brainer. For your needs, the 6. 4L PROPERLY EQUIPPED, will more than satisfy your needs. I have been reading everything I can on this new engine and its built as a true truck engine, not a car engine in a truck. Even if you go with a 6. 4L and 4:10 gears, the initial costs saving, cost of maintenance between diesel and gas, and the cost per gallon difference, the diesel will never break even with the gas. The margins are so close anymore that unless you are towing constantly at close to GCWR, there is no reason to buy a new diesel, especially as a commuter.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Buy the Cummins/Aisin. The new 3500s are much heavier duty than before. You will be prepared for the future, not just what you foresee now. For example, that bigger boat that is a "steal" to buy, that trip towing to the western mountains, etc.

 

[rscurtis]

Keep in mind also that you have to spin that hemi at 5600 RPM to realize its HP, and at 4000 RPM to get its maximum torque, which is still half of what the 6. 7 produces at less than half the RPM. Also, there is no way that the hemi will match the diesel's fuel efficiency, I don't care what they do to it. The fact that you're talking about 6000' of elevation at some point puts it even further behind the curve. Don't be fooled by the price difference between diesel fuel and RUG- since diesel contains 113% of the energy per gallon, if the price variance is within that range, the two fuels are the same price. It's your dime and it's your choice, but that hemi is not going to be the pie in the sky that you think it is- not in an HD PU with a camper.

 

[Wingate]

Keep in mind also that you have to spin that hemi at 5600 RPM to realize its HP, and at 4000 RPM to get its maximum torque, which is still half of what the 6. 7 produces at less than half the RPM. Also, there is no way that the hemi will match the diesel's fuel efficiency, I don't care what they do to it. The fact that you're talking about 6000' of elevation at some point puts it even further behind the curve. Don't be fooled by the price difference between diesel fuel and RUG- since diesel contains 113% of the energy per gallon, if the price variance is within that range, the two fuels are the same price. It's your dime and it's your choice, but that hemi is not going to be the pie in the sky that you think it is- not in an HD PU with a camper.

ok, while not popular on a diesel site, the biggest, heaviest thing the OP has discussed is a 3K # camper. So, we are discussing a 3K# camper(slide-in Im guessing?) At what point will one ever need to call on the 400+ hp and 400+ft lbs of torque when driving with a 3K# camper? Heck, put the camper on it and hook the boat to the rear. When would one ever need the diesel power/torque? Merging? Either engine will be readily capable! R U going to give up some fuel efficiency when you have your foot in the floor with the gasser, well heck yes, RPM isnt free! But, keep in mind, NEITHER IS BOOST! We arent talking about a full timer here that is towing every day. We are talking about someone who only pulls on occasion, price oil changes from the same dealership, price fuel filters at scheduled intervals( the gasser doesnt even have a fuel filter) DEF usage will be up on this application due to the constant light loading on the engine. Then spec out your Hemi and look at the fuel mileage #s vs REAL #s of a current M. Y. Ram. After all thats tallied, add the initial price increase for a diesel, plus insurance rate increase. I have no false illusions of a 6. 4L Hemi getting 25 mpg... it aint gonna happen, but I believe it is a viable alternative that Ram has brought to market to fill this exact sutuation.

Makes me wonder just how in the world my grandpa ever hauled his IdleTyme Slide-in camper and old Terry Bass boat with a lowly 1979 F250 with a mere 240hp wimpy wheezing smog controlled low compression 460 and an inferior 3 speed automatic transmission!!!

Just my . 02, and Im sure I'll get change back!

Other than some suspension inadequacies, a 1/2 ton could do all the work the OP has to offer it.

 

[kohldad]

First all, thanks for all the opinions. Does give me more to think about.



I have done my calculations and played with the numbers. If you are interested in them, you can view a PDF or the actual excel spreadsheet. Yes the gas will cost more, but not much.

Keep the 04 and buy a commuter to DD...

I'm down to two vehicles, my 04 and a new 2013 Camry. Most days, I drive the camry, but since my wife can't drive the manual, on one or two days a week I drive the truck so she can run errands. A third vehicle just doesn't make sense, besides if I did go third it would be a built up Jeep Scrambler as a toy. Problem is I'm getting where I want the wife to help with the driving and my leg won't be long before it has issues with depressing the clutch - hence the new truck with auto.

For example, that bigger boat that is a "steal" to buy, that trip towing to the western mountains, etc.

I won't be getting a bigger boat as the one we have is perfect for two people exploring our water ways plus it fits in the garage with only an inch to spare. And the one trip out west is a maybe/if. The weight for the camper is actually for an upgrade, my current one actually weighs only 2,000#.

Keep in mind also that you have to spin that hemi at 5600 RPM to realize its HP, and at 4000 RPM to get its maximum torque

Yes, that is one of the considerations. Have gotten use to keeping under 2000 RPMs.

Slide-in camper and old Terry Bass boat with a lowly 1979 F250 with a mere 240hp wimpy wheezing smog controlled low compression 460 and an inferior 3 speed automatic transmission!!!

Funny you mention the 460. My first truck was a used 92 F350 Crew Cab with the 460 and E40D transmission. Used it to haul a 7,000 TT locally and out west in 2000. Didn't hit any 10,000 ft passes but did haul into Yellowstone, Salt Lake City, Arches, and Durango. Only real problem was with a very stiff head wind but found out why when the CAT clogged about 1,000 miles after making it home. Never had a problem other wise in the 90k miles I drove it and never really thought it needed more power.

At what point will one ever need to call on the 400+ hp and 400+ft lbs of torque when driving with a 3K# camper? Heck, put the camper on it and hook the boat to the rear.

Yes, it is a slide-in and occasionally have the camper and boat. But even then, I'll only be about 14,000 GVW and does not see much more than small hills.

 

[JR]

I'm the wrong person to be giving advice here since I have way too many vehicles for this point in my life, but I agree with this idea 100%. If your current 3rd gen still fits your hauling/towing needs, keep it around and buy another vehicle for your daily needs.

I, ahem, we, have 5 in the driveway/shop (out of 2 drivers). One is about to go this weekend, the wife says another needs to be right behind it. We shall see...

 

[kohldad]

Would also like to mention, it isn't the cost of the vehicle upfront as I can afford either the gas or diesel. What I'm worried about is the light duty use on the new emissions system of the 2013/2014 trucks.

 

[jgillott]

Would also like to mention, it isn't the cost of the vehicle upfront as I can afford either the gas or diesel. What I'm worried about is the light duty use on the new emissions system of the 2013/2014 trucks.

That is a very valid concern. The early EGR/DPF trucks didn't like light duty "grocery getter" operation. They did get better as time went on. The new SCR trucks are showing promise, but I can understand your concerns.



If you notice in my signature, I also own a gas powered Ram 1500 work truck that probably gets probably 75% of my use at this point. I don't want to talk you in to a gasser, but they are certainly much more capable than they used to be. Except for heavier towing and plowing/salting, allmost all of our operation is done with that 1/2 ton. Gas, oil changes, and tires. No issues, and it gets used hard.

I, ahem, we, have 5 in the driveway/shop (out of 2 drivers). One is about to go this weekend, the wife says another needs to be right behind it. We shall see...

We have so many, our insurance guy has us on a fleet insurance. I'd like to downsize.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The 2013-4 emissions system is commute-friendly; you may use a bit more def, that's all. I got mine to do everything and a lot of the driving is short trips and solo long trips.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Several years ago, I recommended my brother to buy gasoline powered Ram 2500 truck instead of diesel. He was sick of his Ford F250 4x4 with a 6. 4L diesel almost constantly in regeneration and asked me about a Ram with a Cummins 6. 7L. Considering his application that incurred slow short drives, slow driving on unpaved county roads, and in farm fields and pastures, a 2008/2009 Ram with a Cummins with the heavy use of EGR, a NOX catalyst, and DPF would not work without a lot of problems. He purchased a Ram 2500 4x4 with a Hemi and couldn't be more pleased. The Ram/Hemi ownership costs are much less due to lower initial purchase price, much less required maintenance and the maintenance costs have been much less. One benefit he has realized is that the truck gets around better in muddy pastures/fields since there isn't a heavy diesel engine riding on the front axle. The Hemi fuel mileage is even a bit better than he was getting on the Ford diesel.

Also, I have a friend and former employee who purchased a '09 Ram/Hemi 1500 who has a daily commute of 110 miles. His truck just passed the 200,000 mile mark and hasn't needed anything other than regular maintenance.

Bill