Diesel exhaust fluid

[B.G. Smith]

I was in a Ford dealership recently and picked up a piece of literature. It mentioned the DEF that is required on the new Ford diesels so they can meet exhaust emission standards. The truck has a five or six gallon tank next to the fuel tank and is supposed to last betwee oil changes at 10,000 miles. DEF = "diesel exhaust fluid". Do the new Dodges have anything like this???? bg

 

[RustyJC]

Cab & chassis - yes, they use DEF.



Pickups - no, they don't use DEF.





Rusty

 

[Simplysmn]

My understanding on the Furd's is every 5000 miles you have to fill that DPF tank at 12 buck's for 2 gal's

 

[jaird]

Is there any milage or power advantage to DEF equipped vehicles vs newer trucks with just EGR?

 

[RustyJC]

They claim there is due to less EGR required plus fewer regeneration cycles. The magazine tests always show a few MPG advantage to the DEF trucks, if you want to believe those, but you have to figure in the cost of the DEF.



I think the jury's still out regarding real world results and comparisons.



Rusty

 

[rscurtis]

OTR trucks are using it almost exclusively (except anything powered by International). Keep in mind, that as the price of fuel goes up, DEF becomes more of a bargain. Also remember that your new Ram is regenerating the NOX adsorber every several minutes.

 

[Bob4x4]

They still have dpf's
The def is in addition to.

 

[AfterBurner]

After owning one and reading about other C&Cs with DEF, they aren't seeing any improvement in mpg vs p/u. The cost of DEF on my truck is pretty insignificant, considering I get about 800 mpg. So depending on where you buy anywhere from $3-$6 every 800 miles.

 

[JHumphries]

... I get about 800 mpg...

 

[EricBu12]

he means the miles per DEF gallon... 800 miles per DEF gallon used.

 

[DMather]

I still can't help shake the feeling that DEF is akin to muffler bearings. It just doesn't sound right.....

 

[2Rowdy]

Real world experience on CASE IH ag tractors is up to a 20% increase in fuel economy versus the year previous tractors. The def tanks needs refilling roughly every 2 diesel tanks. I have no experience on pickups.

 

[crispyboy]

Pros- claimed increase in fuel mileage.
Cons - something else to buy, keep track of and possibly carry a spare jug in the truck.

Seems to be a toss-up to me.

 

[B.G. Smith]

I still can't help shake the feeling that DEF is akin to muffler bearings. It just doesn't sound right.....

That's kinda what I was thinking. bg

 

[Bob4x4]

The system on the Dodge is rather complex and expensive I am sure. Since the fluid can freeze the system heats the plumbing and upon shut down purges the lines. Looks like it will be one more maint. headache i am happy to be with out

 

[Bill Stockard]

Real world experience on CASE IH ag tractors is up to a 20% increase in fuel economy versus the year previous tractors. The def tanks needs refilling roughly every 2 diesel tanks. I have no experience on pickups.

The big John Deere ag tractors don't use DEF. CaseIH is using their fuel economy vs. JD as a sales feature advantage. I wonder if it's really an advantage long term after adding the cost of DEF and the added expense/maintenance. I agree with Bob4x4, adding DEF just makes the complicated more complicated.



Bill

 

[AfterBurner]

The system on the Dodge is rather complex and expensive I am sure. Since the fluid can freeze the system heats the plumbing and upon shut down purges the lines. Looks like it will be one more maint. headache i am happy to be with out

That was my concern too when I got the truck. Cummins stated they've run these systems for millions of miles on OTR trucks, which made feel a little better. Supposedly the ram system is a scaled down version of the OTR systems, whereas ford and chevy use scaled up version from European cars.



I have run the truck in everything from 5 deg to 103 deg with no DEF problems... so far.



At the first oil change there was service bulliten on the DEF system. Took about 3 hours to complete... think it had to do with a valve between tank and exhaust that had caused problems.



H&S now has a delete kit for these trucks :-laf. I plan on doing it, but don't want to be the first guinnea pig.

 

[mwilson]

On the large stuff it is working fairly well, but still a very complicated system. Takes up a lot of frame rail space to mount all the aftertreatment devices. .



Have seen a few defective DEF tanks, sending units, connectors. Connectors and lines are cheap cheeesy plastic junk no matter whos truck or engine that they are used on.



Many line and fitting failures this winter were due to ice and/or snow coming off of the truck's cab or body and smacking the top of the tank and lines.

Had to rescue a bulk oil delivery truck in Calais Maine this winter because ice had slid off the bulk tank and creamed a fitting while it was pumping off product.

You can't drive it that way, truck had to sit overnight in that very same spot waiting for parts that I flew directly to its location.



Manufacturers persist in mounting the DEF tanks in poor locations in an effort to minimize hassle for the body companies.



Much room for improvement yet... ... . :-laf



Mike.

 

[Bob4x4]

On the large stuff it is working fairly well, but still a very complicated system. Takes up a lot of frame rail space to mount all the aftertreatment devices. .



Have seen a few defective DEF tanks, sending units, connectors. Connectors and lines are cheap cheeesy plastic junk no matter whos truck or engine that they are used on.



Many line and fitting failures this winter were due to ice and/or snow coming off of the truck's cab or body and smacking the top of the tank and lines.

Had to rescue a bulk oil delivery truck in Calais Maine this winter because ice had slid off the bulk tank and creamed a fitting while it was pumping off product.

You can't drive it that way, truck had to sit overnight in that very same spot waiting for parts that I flew directly to its location.



Manufacturers persist in mounting the DEF tanks in poor locations in an effort to minimize hassle for the body companies.



Much room for improvement yet... ... . :-laf



Mike.

Are the big rigs running heated lines also?

 

[mwilson]

Yes, they are heated.

Will grab a few pics today at work.



Mike.