Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Diesel fuel grades?

[TEasley]

Since I joined TDR I've started to pay attention to what's on the pump. Most say #2, some say premium diesel, one said #1, and a Chevron here at home has ultra low sulphur ( 5 ppm I think ) I just finished a trip pulling a travel trailer up to Minnesota and back, and couldn't tell any real difference in the performance of the different brands or grades of fuel.



What does #1 or #2 or "premium" actually mean? I did use "Power Service" Diesel Kleen cetane booster in every 3rd or 4th tank, and it may have boosted mpg very slightly, but because of different terrain, I can't swear to it.



Thanks, Tom

 

[tp0d]

#1 is Kerosene, #2 is Diesel. ultra low sulphur is just the new diesel that is coming to an industry wide standard (as of 10-15-06 i believe). ULSD is the new #2 diesel.



As for additive, a 12v doesnt really need it, but it cant hurt to add it every few tanks. I use power service, grey bottle in summer, white in winter. I havent added it for a while, dont notice any difference in running. MPG may be down a bit, but tough to tell. .



-j

 

[NHays]

#1 diesel is a slightly lighter grade diesel fuel, Around here people use #1 diesel fuel alot in tractors in the winter, and engines that idle alot. #2 Diesel is a slightly heavier grade diesel fuel, alot of pumps sell this as "Premium Diesel" just like "premium unleaded". All #2 diesel fuels have a few additives in them, one main one is a winter mix, which is mixed as the fuel is either picked up or delivered to the store in the tanker, most stores don't even tell you when they switch to winter blend fuel, you will just notice about a 5-10% dock in fuel mileage. Hope this makes it as clear as mud for you.



"The refining companies are well aware of the starting problems associated with diesels in cold weather, and they usually “winterize” their diesel fuel by mixing 15-20 percent No. 1 diesel with the conventional No. 2 diesel in cold climates. This improves the volatility of the fuel and reduces the cloud point to slightly lower temperatures. At this point, we should discuss the differences between the two grades of diesel fuel. Diesel No. 1 and No. 2 are the two common grades of diesel fuel. No. 2 diesel is by far the most widely used since it provides the most energy per gallon for improved power and mileage, and the highest lubricity for the fuel injection pump. Since it is a heavier distillate than No. 1 diesel, No. 2 diesel is usually a few cents per gallon cheaper too. Some diesel engines are designed to operate specifically on No. 1 diesel, especially if the engine will be subjected to frequent starting and stopping, but No. 1 diesel has several disadvantages. First, it provides less lubricity than No. 2 diesel, which can prove troublesome for some fuel injection pumps, and second, it contains roughly 95 percent of the heat energy of No. 2 diesel. And as we just mentioned, it’s a little more expensive too. " (http://www.bankspower.com/tech_aboutdieselfuel.cfm)

 

[barbwire]

I am sure we will get more on this issue

But, I do not agree with these statements.....

All #2 diesel fuels have a few additives in them, one main one is a winter mix, which is mixed as the fuel is either picked up or delivered to the store in the tanker,

"The refining companies are well aware of the starting problems associated with diesels in cold weather, [UNQUOTE]







I do not believe that #2 is a winter mix , nor do I believe it has as much to do with starting issues, as it has to do with the gelling of the paraffin in #2 diesel, {which will of course not allow your engine to start because it is starved for diesel, simply because of the gelled paraffin that has clogged your fuel filter. } I do not wish to be argumentative, but I believe you have not given the proper info. But then ,who am I?

 

[pwerwagn]

I do not believe that #2 is a winter mix , nor do I believe it has as much to do with starting issues, as it has to do with the gelling of the paraffin in #2 diesel,

I think what he was implying is that there is a winter version of #2 (has additives in it that lower the cloud point, or some kero).

Not that #2 is a winter mix. (Im not trying to argue either, just wanted to say I didnt see it as him saying that... )

"The refining companies are well aware of the starting problems associated with diesels in cold weather,

That statement was quoted from banks power, so it has to be correct. :-laf :-laf :-laf



--Jeff

 

[Champane Flight]

#1 vs #2 vs Premium vs winter blend...

My knowledge comes from around twenty years in the oil buisness, don't get me wrong now, I do not know it all, but will explain what I do know.



Most refinerys at this time are producing ony ULSD, ULSD has a lubricity additive put in at the terminal loading facility. Premium diesel is just a additive package, it does lower gell point (pour point). There are two points to remember pour point, and cloud point, one is where the fuel starts to congeal, and the other is where it does. Most #2 fuels non winter blended have a cloud point of around -10 F . Your premium packages sometimes lower this by around 5-10 degrees, depending on suppliers additive and rate of injection.



This is where it gets tricky, # 1 diesel is just a aviation grade kerosene in most cases (jet fuel without additive), a lot of distributers (wholsalers) will blend #1 and #2 to reach a pour point to suit their area. If you live in a high mountain area with temps that reach -20-30 degrees on a regular basis, your supplier is probably blending. Your vehicle will run on pure #1, however your fuel milage will suffer, along with your pocketbook. #1 fuel will not gell until temps of -30-50... Refiners do produce a lighter blend for winter and supply different areas with these fuels during winter months via pipeline. You will notice a MPG drop in winter months, this is because of either different levels of jobber blending, or difference in refinery supplying.



If you have ever "gelled up", you will know it is a giant pain in the rear. If you see the weather change to a deep freeze it is a good idea to add a little #1 to the tank. Most of the time if you are running through a cold area, the circulation of fuel will keep you from gelling. But shutting down for any extended period will put you at risk. Some additives out there will help, be sure to read the instructions. DO NOT listen to the people that suggest gasoline as a diesel thinner, big no no! All it takes is one gallon of gasoline to ruin 100! It will take care of injectors and a pump in short order...

 

[pwerwagn]

Champagne Flight,

do you know if all places recieve a winter blend during the winter?? For instance, here in Albuquerque we rarely get below 0*, so #2 *should be* sufficient.

I assume we prolly do... .



--jeff

 

[MAiton]

And I may stand corrected but Bunker would be considered #6... or so I've read from other sources.



Mike

 

[Champane Flight]

Depends ?

No, I really do not know what Northern NM is getting. We do supply some of northern NM, and I could find out what our NM line supplies if you like? I would say you are getting a mild blend at best, of course some jobbers may be doing their own blending as mentioned above. Best to ask local distributers if they are blending. You could do your own testing, not worth it in many cases. I usually just add a half of can of Amsoil cetane boost about every third tank, haven't gelled yet.



The refinery usually takes the whole area it supplys and averages coldest spot in that area as a rule. So in your case, probably mountains of northern NM? Now if you are in southern NM, probably straight fuels. .

 

[pwerwagn]

Yeah, I be alb gets a blend. I was thinking last night, since there are so many folks that fill up in town, but live in the east mountains where it gets cold, they probably have to run a blend.

I was just curious, thats all.

 

[TEasley]

Thanks to everyone, particularly NHays and ChampagneFlight, for the info. I have found that TDR members are the absolute best source of information based on over the road experience, not guesswork. This membership is the best money I've spent since I bought my truck.



I entered my truck profile but now am working on getting it to post. I understand it only comes up with a new thread, but noticed it didn't tack on to the original question. Dang computers. Anyway, It's a turd brown/oklahoma chrome '97 2wd longbed X-cab w/ EGT,boost,trans temp, and fuel pressure gauges. Airaid intake adapted from a GMC,Piers boost elbow and bypass valve, 3" pipe w/ Flowmaster, no kitty. And a dead KDP (thanks to BlackSheepDiesel). Mostly a grocery getter, but when I do work it, It's at its best. I have no interest in a new one.



Thanks again, Tom

 

[pwerwagn]

I entered my truck profile but now am working on getting it to post.

dont enter it in the profile, enter the info in the "signature" area. Thats what will show up in your posts.

It will automatically go back and enter itself in your old posts. Even when you change it, it changes it from all the previous posts.



If you need help with the sig, send me a PM. I'll be glad to walk you through it on the phone or something.

--Jeff

 

[dkoldno7]

Right on

I'm in Alaska and your right, #1 is all I use all winter,Nov-March,a Gelled up fuel system is the pitts. DKold#7