Diesel Locomotive Service Life

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

So, we all know the Cummins will go a million miles, how long does your typical diesel locomotive last? How many years of service? How many miles or hours? Let's hear from some of the railroad types



Vaughn

 

[RustyJC]

Large power generation diesels that spend their lives at full speed and near full load can go 30,000 to 40,000 hours on cylinder heads (freshen up the valves & seats) and 60,000 or more hours on piston rings. Bearings (main and rod) may go 100,000 hours or more - I've pulled bearings at 120,000 hours that didn't look that bad.



Rusty

 

[Ncostello]

I know little about this aspect of locos... but the two we had at the Power Plant were GM electromotives used to pull 100 car trains of coal around to unload. They have been running since the 1960's. They usually unload 2-100 car trains everyday and run (idle) along for 16 hours. I got to operate it once and it was rather unique to operate. Its strange to see 100 cars moving and know your responsible for it. The power is amazing and these are not that big.



It was my understanding they had never received a major overhaul. Just minor repairs.

 

[nickleinonen]

um, that's a hard question to answer easily. at work, doing running repairs, we change power assemblies [head, liner, piston, rod] daily there. sometimes there is 2 or 3 or more that get changed out in the same unit at the same shopping for various reasons [water leaks, dropped valves... ] kinda cool when you find a conrod twisted like a pretzel in the sump, or a rod sticking out the block. these failures usually happens in the gm emd units. the ge units are more reliable i think. i see a lot less of them in the shop [but we also have a lot less of them in the fleet]

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

nickleinonen it would be fascinating to look over an EMD engine parts scrapyard



Do you do this sort of thing for a living? I've seen a dead prime mover sitting out near a RR yard with some of the crankcase side plates removed. Mighty big crank, rods, pistons, etc. Must make a heck of a noise when one lets go!



There's an old GP10 (BNSF engine #1438) they run pretty hard on a regular basis. I'm told is one of the oldest on BNSF's roster. I saw it solo with 33 cars in tow heading down the mainline not long ago and it was all it could handle. There's a lot of SD9s (I think) as well here in the Pasco rail yard. I love the sound of those old beaters, and the loud generator whine. With the droves of new locomotives ordered during the boom time of the late '90s the old ones would be retired in droves once the economy cooled, but that hasn't happened around here.



Vaughn

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

EMD diesel engine A-frames and cranks usually go forever as far as service life. Power Assemblies and Main/con-rod bearings are usually what get changed out on a failure or a PM program.



Some of the SD-45s that WC ran had mostly original blocks and crankshafts still in the engine and these were built from 1966 to 72. WC derated them from 3600 to 3400 or 3200 HP to save on the crank wear and tear. 20 cylinder crank is one mighty long puppy and they were worried about torsional failures.



WC had a triannual PM plan where all bearings, injectors, etc were changed out and everything timed up and other stuff I cant remember.



I believe WC also had a 5 year major overhaul/PM plan... (change out all power assemblies and bearings) but I wasn't around long enough to get involved in one.



I still have paperwork for these... . but its all packed away:{ at the parents.



As for routine maintenance on these... nickleinonen pretty much covered it. Seen a few twisted rods, dropped valves, broken heads, and crankcase explosion incidents myself.



Crankcase explosions are basically mini-Hiroshimas. It can range from just the handhole and top-deck covers being blown away to everything but the crank blown out of the engine.

 

[Royk]

There's a lot of SD9s (I think) as well here in the Pasco rail yard.

Wow, those beasts were built in the mid 50's. Amazing to see a class 1 railroad still using them after 45 years of service!



I always thought SD-9s were among the coolest looking engines.



Roy

 

[roadranger]

EMD Diesel Power-

What the heck causes crankcase explosions??? Oo.

 

[nickleinonen]

Originally posted by roadranger

EMD Diesel Power-

What the heck causes crankcase explosions??? Oo.

something letting go will cause a mighty boom. we have one unit in the shop right now that had just came from a 2P [complete overhaul] that was done in the IC [i think? it was south of the border] shops [i work for CN in toronto locomotive reliability center] that had a catastrofic failure in #1 & #9 power assemblies. they had to separate the head from the liner and burn the liner out, with the lower liner insert damaged. what a mess. no offence to you yanks, but the overhauls that we have recieved back from down south are crappy. the longest running without major failure is about 3 months now. the ones we did are 12months+ and still going [but we went over budget time wise with electrical holdups (had to reman the diode banks)]



i got some conrod bearings around somewhere, gonna snap a pic with a ruler by it for a reference so you all can see what they look like...



http://community.webshots.com/album/70879818fopvbQ



the above link is to my webshots photo album with pic's of the emd bearings. the side with the copper showing is the bearing for the blade rod...

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

Originally posted by roadranger

EMD Diesel Power-

What the heck causes crankcase explosions??? Oo.

Basically hot oil vapors..... or oil mist if you want to call it that. Generally a main bearing will start to go... . and it starts heating up the oil to the point where it vaporizes..... thus filling up the crankcase with oil mist. Then a hotspot (spark from somewhere) or the total bearing failure will set everything off.

Its not supposed to get this far... . usually the oil mist will build pressure in the crankcase and trip the crankcase pressure button, shutting down the engine. Then the engine is not to be touched, restarted, or opened up for a minimum of 2 hours (letting the mist dissapate). If there is hot mist condition existing and somebody goes to open a cover or even check the oil level by dipstick..... the admission of air will ignite it.



Generally if you are by the engine or inside the carbody with it... . you'll be dead.



And then there is the smaller booms by mechanical failures as pointed out by nickleinonen . Still just as specatcular and less likely to kill everyone within range. When I get my cam back up, I'll post pictures of my 645 conrod-pistion assembly. No. . I didnt steal it... legally obtained



nickleinonen--- those rebuilds you were talking about sound like they came out of the Woodcrest facility..... not sure if the shop down South in Memphis?? does heavy rebuilds. Have you seen any old WC units for inspections/repairs up in Toronto?



Jeff

 

[nickleinonen]

we get some IC units now for smaller stuff [p/a change outs, water pumps, exhaust leaks, epd's, aux gens... ] but nothing real major [turbos, sometimes air compressors... ] we do not get many WC units in. i have seen a few in the shop, but i usually only see them when they run through the service track, along with BN, SF, BNSF, and other southern companies [rail america, ohio central, conrail... ]



the only WC i remember well was one of the 20 cyl. ones that came in. it was as long as the new sd70/75's we have. kinda neat. iirc, it came in for no aux gen output [wore the brushes down to nothing, but no comm. damage i think

 

[Dennis Garrett]

I'm an engineer on BNSF, I work out of KC to Wellington, ks. & back, 11-12 trips a month. About 10 years ago, I was on a grain train crawling up the hill to Olathe, ks, with Santa Fe 5952 & three others. 5952 was an EMD 20 cyl F-45. I was having trouble with it out of KC, and had to restart it twice. These are a full car body unit, and the start station is at the rear of the engine. After the 2nd start, I came back to the cab and put it on line. I ran back to make sure the low water button stayed in, and as soon as it came up to full load, it clattered & hammered & blew up before I got back to the cab. We set it out at Ottawa, and went on with the rest of the consist. I saw it at the diesel shop later in the week, and found out it broke a cam shaft, & some gears, blew several heads or gaskets. When that happened, a spark set off the crank case explosion. It was an oily, smokey mess, but I didn't get hurt. It had oil running off the ceiling, & down both sides of the engine compartment. Both dipsticks were blown clear out of their tubes. The conductor I was working with was as shocked as I was, when I came in the door followed by a huge cloud of smoke & alarm bells. It later went to San Bernadino for an engine exchange. Anyway I've poked up mileage figures on some of the newer units with the on board computers, and have been seeing 120-180,000 miles a year on most of the road units. Back in the 80's we experimented with a Caterpillar 3612, rated then at 4300 HP. The last time I had it, it's hour meter showed about 15,000 and it was doing fine at that time. It eventually didn't work out in locomotive use, and was sold off the Morrison- Knudsen in boise, Idaho, who leased or sold it to the Utah RY to haul coal. Cat said at the time it was good for about 20k hrs between overhauls, vrs. about 10k for EMD or GE. (My bumper sticker on the back glass says "My other vehicle is a locomotive" And it's the truth!)

 

[10-G]

Interesting info.



Not to hijack the thread but help me out here. Can any of you railroad guys provide info on how to get employment in the rail industry? looking at early retirement in 2 1/2 years and starting to plan for my next career.



Is specific training required before you get in? Or do you have to get in to get the training? Working conditions and hours ok? Is this a trade that is enjoyed by the employees ? Stress factors? Pay?



Thanks for any info in advance



BA

 

[Dennis Garrett]

For BNSF hiring, all positions & locations,go here:

https://208.169.18.201/clients/bnsf/publicjobs/Canviewjobs.cfm?



Or here too:

http://www.ble.org/info/engineer.asp

 

[Dennis Garrett]

Locomotive fuel useage, (Gal. per hr. table)

Here's a neat table for figuring gallons per hour, for each throttle notch. Several differents models listed. The last ten types are GE's, all the rest look like EMD's It starts out with switch engines.

http://www.vcn.com/~alkrug/rrfacts/fueluse.htm

 

[wxman]

Dennis,



Thanks for the fuel consumption link. Guess I'm surprised that the EMD SD70MAC has slightly lower fuel consumption in run 8 than the GE C40-8 (both 4000 hp locomotives). I thought that the main disadvantage of the two-cycle diesel engines (besides emissions) was their relatively higher fuel consumption.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

FACT:

A coal train moving uphill at 11mph with 4 SD40-2 locos on the point and a 2 loco helper shoving on the rear has a fuel efficiency of about 48 feet per gallon. :--)



I remember reading about some huge ship that couldn't even travel it's own length on a gallon of fuel... that's insane.



Matt