Diesels Kill People!!!

[GMincher]

Hey guys, Fox 5 News,Washington, D. C. 5pm news, Did anyone else see this?? Diesel engines are now accused of killing people!!! They actually said this! D. C. busses are accused of running OLD fashioned diesel engines rather than clean burning natural gas. 226 deaths are attributed to diesel particulate exhaust per year in the D. C, area, 285/yr. in the Baltimore area. I can't remember what they quoted about emergency room visits they blame on diesel emissions! They're on a kick to sell some sort of filters at about $5000 a pop to control diesel emissions! Were did this come from?! I wish I could have recorded this report and sent it out to you guys. Yours in polluted disbelief, Greg (I apologize for putting this in 911, but I consider this an emergency!)

 

[NBowlin]

there will always be something for people to cry about. how many of theose folks you figured smoked?

 

[Rman]

diesel particulate emissions have been linked to cancers for years. I find it difficult to digest them putting hard numbers on it though. It's certainly a factor, but so is just about everything else, how they can spout off that diesel emissions are the sole contributor to a person's death sounds quite irrational.

 

[WBusa]

At the risk of having my head ripped off, I've gotta tell you that this info is pretty much correct, folks. I'm a biomedical scientist... also a proud CTD owner... and there's a lot of good research out there documenting the negative health effects of diesel smoke. Its not much of an issue for most folks, but for those who have compromised respiratory function - and there are millions of 'em (for any number of reasons, not just smoking) it actually does decrease life expectancy. The effect is small, but statistically significant - and translates into several hundred 'excess' deaths per year... a big deal, I suppose, if one of them is you or someone you love.



Now, the trick is, that doesn't mean we should ban diesels, or that diesels are 'bad'. Lots of things that lots of people do have small but significant health effects on others. Plus, on the other hand, diesel exhaust (not smoke... exhaust) is considerably less polluting than gasser exhaust... much lower hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, other bad stuff. Welcome to my world... I'm constantly frustrated when I hear reports about scientific research on TV. Yeah, diesel smoke is bad. But diesel exhaust is good... well, its better than gasser exhaust. So overall, its a wash. But the media just takes half a story and runs with it, until everyone thinks the sky is falling.



For me, personally, that's why I keep my CTD adjusted to avoid smoke... that, plus I don't believe in blowing money out my tailpipe. Your mileage may vary, and more power to ya; I will defend to the death your right to drive your CTD, though I will certainly appreciate it if you will keep your smoke out of my face. I'm a cigarette smoker, and have spent the last twenty years freezin my butt off standing around in the street like a homeless person. I'm sorry to say that if they came after me yesterday (and they did), then they'll sure-nuff be comin' after you tomorrow. Its not simply a Democrat versus Republican thing... it was a good ole-fashion Republican, not Democratic, governor who kicked my cigarettes and me out of public buildings. People are just waaay too freaked out about waaay too many small things. But that doesn't change the fact that diesel smoke is indeed unhealthful. So is cigarette smoke. Now where did I leave my Camels?

 

[klenger]

At least mine meets all the latest emmsions standards, even for CA.

 

[Sled Puller]

They're on a kick to sell some sort of filters at about $5000 a pop to control diesel emissions! Were did this come from?! !)

Its coming from the lobbyiest who is being paid by the company that is making the $5000 filters.



Busses in the city are stupid, anyway, electric trolleys made more sense. But GM didn't make trolleys back in the day, they made buses!!

 

[cumminstogetya]

I heard this on the noon o'clock news in Ohio on a Columbus station. They said that somewhere around 780 Ohioians will die this year because of diesel pollution. Of course, we joked about it saying that more than 600 of them would be sitting at a truck pull.



John

 

[rbattelle]

How many people die every year from sunlight-induced skin cancer?



-Ryan

 

[WDimig]

hmmmm i find this thread very intersting. my dad is a snap-on tools dealer, and his teritorry is in north east D. C. , and one of his major shops is WMATA garage that maintains all the busses for D. C. ive been down there numerous times, and its a very impressive shop. i actually did a research paper for my mechanical systems class back in 11th grade, and i based it off of the shop down there. the paper was on the various diesel engines that the WMATA were using in thier busses. i talked with the head garage manager, Harpal Kappor, and got lots of info on the engines used, and the newest engines, including the nautral gas engines, which are based off a 8. 3L isx cummins! my paper gave the specs on each eninge that they used, (cummins L10, detriot series 50, detriot 6V92 2 stroke, cummins ISX, and the natural gas model). anyway i focused on the types of emission controls that the busses were using, which included turbocharging, air aftecooling, particuale traps, and EGR. all the engines that are being currently used are constantly being taken apart and updated with the most current smog, and emission controlling devices. the fact that the busses are usd soo much daily, is a major reason why the smog and particulates are soo bad, but the busses themselves are very clean. i feel that clarksville MD will soon have a smog problem, mainly due to my behalf :-laf just thought i share that little bit of info with ya'll



wes

 

[DieselTweaker]

I'll be one of the 600 people at the truck pulls and loving every minute of it.



What about the millions of people that die from second hand smoke,,, I dont see 5000. oo dollar filters for smokers.

 

[rbattelle]

Link to an article.



This is probably where the TV news got the story.



Here's a link to the organization primarily responsible for distributing the information.



Here's a link to the paper written by the firm Abt, which carried out some of the research for CATF.



The analysis that Abt performed was to see what the future death rate from particulate matter (assumed to be primarily from diesel emissions) might be in 2010, and how expensive it will be to care for public health at that time. I read over parts of the paper with special attention to their methodology. What it comes down to is pure statistics and lots of guesses (albeit educated ones). Abt repeatedly states that their work in this matter is quite speculative, and the high number of variables and the assumptions that had to be made call to question the perceived accuracy of the final numbers.



Of course, CATF and the news media don't bother to discuss the (potentially massive) statistical error in the report. By no means am I saying the research is useless or "bad". In fact, Abt's research paper seems quite reasonably written, to me. Problem is, the people at CATF (and your friendly neighborhood news affiliat) took the numerical results of the study and plastered them out as "fact", without so much as a word about the fact that the numbers are not "truth", but rather "statistical possibilities".



The other research that appears to link death numbers directly to diesel exhaust appears to be based on statistics of statistical data from various environmental agencies including CARB and the EPA. If we look at the lung cancer statistics, for example, the EPA has refused to provide any evidence directly linking diesel particulates with lung cancer; only CARB has done so. And CARB simply says "3 in 10000 lung cancer cases are caused by diesel exhaust" - a figure based on an EPA study into the risk of cancer from diesel soot. I didn't take the time to read the EPA study (you could make a career reading all these papers).



In my *opinion*, this study suffers from the effects of compounding error. CATF has taken statistical data, with all its inherent error, and performed statistical analysis on it - complete with their own assumptions and introduced error. It appears people spent a lot of time on this research, and found exactly what they wanted to find in the end.



This is why you never never never not ever believe any statistic anyone quotes you unless you've taken the time to learn what's been assumed in the study.



Do I think diesel particulate matter is toxic? Yes. Do I think you can quantify its effects across the entire population of the united States? No.



Just my opinions. Flame away!



-Ryan

 

[IC Smoke]

I'll be one of the 600 people at the truck pulls and loving every minute of it.



What about the millions of people that die from second hand smoke,,, I dont see 5000. oo dollar filters for smokers ---- Partsman

I second that!!!!!



So pretty much Im dead in a few years from being on the backhoe,tractors, lawnmowers (kubota diesels), boomtruck, dump truck, and diesel pickups??



I might as well get sue happy and go after dodge/cummins, case, international, GMC, kenworth, kubota, and any other diesel company I might have come accrost that may cause any ailments I might get??



this is BS people these days are getting lazy and have nothing better to do than to get sue happy and waste time!! yeah diesel isnt the cleanest but for friggin sake go after the countries that arnt matching the EPA regulations that OUR OWN vehicles have to meet each year!



. 03

Ian

 

[drewRoberts]

I heard the same thing here in Atlanta on the radio.



all BS if you ask me, emmisions from some of the cars in the area are far worse than my two truck

 

[GFrance]

Warnning to all my TDR buddies. Bring a gas mask to your next dyno event. :-laf :-laf

 

[tURBOdIEZEl]

Warnning to all my TDR buddies. Bring a gas mask to your next dyno event. :-laf :-laf

i dont care who you are. that right there is funny right there. .

 

[Kennywould]

I heard this on the noon o'clock news in Ohio on a Columbus station. They said that somewhere around 780 Ohioians will die this year because of diesel pollution. Of course, we joked about it saying that more than 600 of them would be sitting at a truck pull.



John

Last I heard, the Ohioan's had more to worry about from the methane produced by the cow manure! :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Kennywould]

i dont care who you are. that right there is funny right there. .

As of today all CTD owners in WV will refrain from hauling family members or their pets in the bed of their pickup if they are running stacks!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Gas is a sacred cow, diesel's the scapegoat for all air pollution ills.



Everyone is susceptible to SOMETHING, and for a certain percentage of our population I'm sure that SOMETHING is diesel exhaust/soot/smoke. Those are the ones who probably make the "statistics" to a degree.



How about balancing that out with all those who die a year from bees or other allergies, the diets we eat (FAAAAAARRRRR worse than a little diesel exhaust for many of us!!!) the household chemicals we use, airborne fertilizer chemicals blown from farmers' fields, and let's not mention the exhaust from that gasser with a dead catacon.



I am concientious of the smoke coming from my tailpipe. My sister-in-law is very sensitive to diesel exhaust, she gets a headache from it in no time. I try to be mindful others like her may be behind me and they can't help it they have a sensitivity to diesel exhaust.



Vaughn

 

[BTighe]

those news ppl wouldnt happen to belong to trailer boat mag.

population control

maybe they can come up with a filter you can shove up a cows a** :-laf

 

[DieselTweaker]

I'm thinking road trip, Show them some real smoke and maybe give the a reason to complain