2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Disc/disc vs. disc/drum

[GO 4LO]

For those of you who have driven both disc/disc and disc/drum second gen trucks that are running properly, how would you compare the braking systems? I just bought a '96 this weekend, and the brakes suck compared to my '01 - not sure if they're even working properly. At higher speeds, pedal pressure required to slow down is fairly comparable to my '01, perhaps a little higher. Once down below 20 mph or so, you've really got to stomp the brakes to get it to stop. Is this normal?

Thanks.

Chris



P. S. Overall, very happy with the truck - wouldn't have expected the p-pump and VP44 to run as differently as they do.

 

[HOSSBOBCAT]

bad brakes.

same thing happened to me, I replaced my back wheel cylinders $26 and tightend my drums works great.

 

[Regcabguy]

What Brakes?

:{ Since owning my 99 I've never known what brakes are. I've tried different pads,rotors,etc. I'm going with the egr rear disc conversion now and the install should be complete soon. Some guys have had luck w/egr's front/rear upgrade package but I decided to go w/rear discs. Pricey but reportedly worth it. Last week I almost wiped out another vehicle in a panic situation and called Glenn at egr. I'll post the results.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

The drums I had on my 97 sucked. I replaced with the EGR disc kit and was still not happy. Until, I brought the truck in and had the system power bled. What a difference. This truck actually stops like it's supposed to.



PS-I bought the power bleeder from Glenn but we could not get it to work. When building pressure, the cover would not hold a good seal and kept blowing fluid out.

 

[Regcabguy]

Power Bleed

The drums I had on my 97 sucked. I replaced with the EGR disc kit and was still not happy. Until, I brought the truck in and had the system power bled. What a difference. This truck actually stops like it's supposed to.



PS-I bought the power bleeder from Glenn but we could not get it to work. When building pressure, the cover would not hold a good seal and kept blowing fluid out.

Thanks TRAMPLINEMAN for the advise. The guy doing the install is aware of the need for power bleeding. I know in the instructions it states that air can be trapped in the new calipers and states the need for power bleeding. If this thing stops safely, it'll be a miracle! It's a shame that Dodge sold us these heavy trucks with insufficient stopping power. Upon purchase w/245's and empty it stopped pretty darn good. Add on 285's and a 1800lb camper and it's pitiful. The tires add leverage over the brakes and camper maxes out the GVW. but come on! These brakes suck. :{

 

[Cummnzpowr]

Disc Brakes

I have owned both drum rear trucks, and an 02' 4x4 with disc... now the current 98' with an 02' Dana 80 Disc. I must say it is alot different. Much easier to to pull off the calipers and have the pads changed and rotors turned than it is with all those freakin' springs and garbage in the drum rear end, yuck. . . So my advise, get a good used axle to swap out if you can save some $$. . better than the EGR conversion kit IMO.

 

[rubberneck]

A 96 has a vacuum assist booster also i believe, which suck. Check out www.hydroboost.com My dad converted his first gen to a hydroboost system from these guys and his old 92 will outstop my 2001 with 4 wheel discs. They take a new hydroboost unit like the ones on our newer trucks and modify them for higher output and make adaptor brackets for all kinds of vehicles. The price was extremely reasonable considering the performance improvement. About 600. 00. I do not know the price of the EGR disc conversion, but i am willing to bet that it is more than that. These guys were extremely helpful. With all the posting about poor brake performance, in the earlier trucks especially, i do not know why this has not caught on here. I have posted on it before. Trust me when i tell you that you will not believe how well your truck can stop untill you have one of these. I am going to call them to see if they can "tweek" my stock unit on the 2001. The other thing you may consider is putting the larger wheel cylinders off of a chevy dually. I believe they are 1&3/16 bore compared to either 1" or 1&1/8 depending on year/application in the dodge. They are direct bolt up and are only about 14 bucks a piece. I have done this in both the 92 and a 98 drum truck and it helps. I do not have the part numbers with me, but do a search in the forums, as i got them off of here anyway.

 

[Regcabguy]

Brakes,we don't need no stinkin' brakes.

A 96 has a vacuum assist booster also i believe, which suck. Check out www.hydroboost.com My dad converted his first gen to a hydroboost system from these guys and his old 92 will outstop my 2001 with 4 wheel discs. They take a new hydroboost unit like the ones on our newer trucks and modify them for higher output and make adaptor brackets for all kinds of vehicles. The price was extremely reasonable considering the performance improvement. About 600. 00. I do not know the price of the EGR disc conversion, but i am willing to bet that it is more than that. These guys were extremely helpful. With all the posting about poor brake performance, in the earlier trucks especially, i do not know why this has not caught on here. I have posted on it before. Trust me when i tell you that you will not believe how well your truck can stop untill you have one of these. I am going to call them to see if they can "tweek" my stock unit on the 2001. The other thing you may consider is putting the larger wheel cylinders off of a chevy dually. I believe they are 1&3/16 bore compared to either 1" or 1&1/8 depending on year/application in the dodge. They are direct bolt up and are only about 14 bucks a piece. I have done this in both the 92 and a 98 drum truck and it helps. I do not have the part numbers with me, but do a search in the forums, as i got them off of here anyway.

Thanks for all the suggestions. My daily driver is a 92 Hino cabover w/DRUM BRAKES that stop quite well. I've tried the oversize wheel cylinders as well as the aftermarket pads,rotors etc. My observation has been that the complaints stopped w/the addition of rear discs which should of been on these trucks since their inception. I must admit that my old 86 Ford 2500 4x4 had the worst brakes I've ever experienced. Fords are the predominant vehicle where I work and the braking complaints stopped with the purchase of Super Dutys which came w/discs all around. If this upgrade is unsatisfactory i'm going to park my truck in the ghetto w/keys in it and hope it ends up in Guatamala.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Add on 285's and a 1800lb camper and it's pitiful.

Tell me about it. I've got 285's and pull an 18,000# 5th wheel. Before the conversion, every time I had to hit the brakes, I had to change my shorts.

 

[Stamey]

Most of the braking improvement on the newer models was caused by Dodge finally going to dual piston calipers on the front in 2000. I so wish I could retrofit the 2000 knuckles onto my 99, but the knuckles on 2000 and up have ball joints tha go in from the top where 99 and earlier have ball joints that go in from the bottom. The only way to get the dual piston calipers on a 99 or earlier is to change the front axle, dang it.

I have obtained a 2001. 5 rear Dana 70, with disc, and do plan to install that on my 99, but I don't think that affect will be as dramatic as if I changed the front axle to dual piston calipers.





Chris

 

[DrewStory]

ive had 3 second gen trucks the first two were 01. 5 with the rear disc and the one i have now is an early 01, the difference is night and day, in my opinion no matter what you do rear drums just suck, id shell out the money and convert to rear disc, thats what i plan on doing soon

 

[GO 4LO]

So has anyone tried the Chevy wheel cylinders - how did they work?

Chris

 

[RustyJC]

1996 Ram 3500 - brakes were awful!



2002 Ram 3500 - brakes are great!



Both trucks were/are used to pull large 5th wheel RVs.



Rusty

 

[mikel]

It's all in the truck.





I had a '99 2500 and the brakes were a joke. Horrible is an understatement



I had a '01. 5 2500 w/4 wheel disc and the breaks were excellent



I had a '95 2500 and the breaks were decent, MUCH better than the '99 but not as nice as the '01. 5



I currently have a '96 3500 and it stops better than all the rest of the '9x trucks and darn near as good as the '01. 5.



The only common theme that I have been able to come up with is that the trucks with better brakes (the '01. 5 and the '96) have 4 wheel anti-lock while the others didn't.



Mike

 

[surfbeetle]

check the hose that goes from the vacuum pump to the master cylinder. There was a recall because of a problem with oil getting into the hose and collapsing the hose and choking off the vacuum.

 

[rubberneck]

If this upgrade is unsatisfactory i'm going to park my truck in the ghetto w/keys in it and hope it ends up in Guatamala.

If your truck has the vacuum booster on it, trust me here, ditch it and check the site i mentioned earlier. the vacuum booster does no put out the pressure that these guys can make with their hydroboost. My dad can get 2200psi with only moderate pedal pressure. Guys listen to me. My dads 92 outstops my 01. 5 with 4 wheel discs. Its freaking unbelievable.

 

[Regcabguy]

Hydroboost

If your truck has the vacuum booster on it, trust me here, ditch it and check the site i mentioned earlier. the vacuum booster does no put out the pressure that these guys can make with their hydroboost. My dad can get 2200psi with only moderate pedal pressure. Guys listen to me. My dads 92 outstops my 01. 5 with 4 wheel discs. Its freaking unbelievable.

Yeah, these 99's have hydroboost. EGR sent a wrong bracket and my truck sits half finished and they're closed until Monday for some reason. :{ Luckily I have extra rides. Thanks for the suggestion though. The website indicates that stock hydroboosts can be enhanced. Interesting. My 92 Hino stops well w/drums all around. 204,000 miles. Repairs to date: two brake jobs(front), head gasket,ignition switch,master cylinder@203,000, Allison non-locking,non electronic transmission shifts like new. Uses no oil to date. We can't buy more as Toyota stopped making them in cabover style at this GVW.